Mike porcaro better than Gene Simons?

[Lonnybass]

It's ironic, knowing the kind of fella that Mike Porcaro is - a genuinely good-hearted person who probably never had a bad word to say about ANYONE - one can only wonder what HE would say if asked about Gene Simmons' bass playing abilities.

My guess...nothing but compliments.

Lonnybass

 

[bikeplate]

HI

LOL. Not commenting on whos more famous but who the more accomplished musician is. I dont disagree with the fact that Kiss is a huge band, no doubt. I personally cant stand them and cringe when I hear one of their songs. Im not a jazz snob and love metal, rock, etc.

I just think its a laugh to compare the two bassists. One is an accomplished musician whos played beautifully on many recordings. The other is a rockstar who obviously has not played on alot of his own records!! Pretty funny. I dont think other metal guys have done this. Steve Harris, Geddy Lee, etc? Imagine finding out these guys didnt play the lines on their own records? Pretty weak. Gotta admit that much, dont you? Yea, GS is a busy guy making movies, reality shows, etc. But not play on your own records? DAMN!!

Thats all. Hes a super famous guy everyone has heard of. Porcaro is a fabulous bassist NO one has heard of. Thats the facts

Rob

 

[wade_b]

For some reason this thread reminds me of an interview I read with Joe Zawinul (RIP).

He was asked what music he listens to, and he answered that he hasn't been listening to any other music except his own.

Maybe this is why the true pro's are so gracious and un-affected by what other's do: they are too focused on bettering themselves to even take the time to listen or care too much about what others are doing.

 

[Eric Perry]

The other is a rockstar who obviously has not played on alot of his own records!!

Please tell me how this is "obvious". Facts please, no unsubstantiated hearsay crap spewed by folks who have a beef for whatever ridiculous reason!

 

[Stingray19]

HI

LOL. Not commenting on whos more famous but who the more accomplished musician is. I dont disagree with the fact that Kiss is a huge band, no doubt. I personally cant stand them and cringe when I hear one of their songs. Im not a jazz snob and love metal, rock, etc.

I just think its a laugh to compare the two bassists. One is an accomplished musician whos played beautifully on many recordings. The other is a rockstar who obviously has not played on alot of his own records!! Pretty funny. I dont think other metal guys have done this. Steve Harris, Geddy Lee, etc? Imagine finding out these guys didnt play the lines on their own records? Pretty weak. Gotta admit that much, dont you? Yea, GS is a busy guy making movies, reality shows, etc. But not play on your own records? DAMN!!

Thats all. Hes a super famous guy everyone has heard of. Porcaro is a fabulous bassist NO one has heard of. Thats the facts

Rob

Like I said, please do NOT spread information like that. The rumor about ghost musicians all started because someone mentioned a while back or something that Gene had ghost musicians in the 80s becuase of his 80's movie career...which is true, and Gene admits that he was not there mentally in the 80s.


However, it has been documented that Gene DID, in fact play on all his records and basslines that were truly impressive, the ones in the 70s.


Here's a couple links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f98ScX2dKJw
(Caution: profanity. Gene discussing his estrangement in the 80s.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKCPmspnuYE
(Gene in the studio recently)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ-wWKRUYuY
(Goin Blind, again how is this not a good song and bassline, I mean Gene wrote the song in its entirety, and the bass part plays lead.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LsJ35XkpMc
(Detroit Rock City, he plays it a bit differently now, just an octave lower, I think, but he improvises pretty cool at about 4:18)

And finally, I think jazz snob, elitists, what have you, should really shut up if they don't know the true history of the band....


That is all.

 

[bikeplate]

HI

Its documented in the link a few posts back, Eric. Really kinda common knowledge. Goes for some other bands, also, who have "ghosted" parts when members were able to play due to rehab, jail, etc.

Im not bashing KISS. Just facts. I wish all musicians the best being one myself. Im not a KISS fan, its obvious. Wasnt influenced by them in the least bit. Its a big show!! Huge concerts, costumes, etc. Its all good. Not my thing but I can understand why many really like them. They've had great success touring over the years. Wealthy guys from it.

Was just trying to shed some more facts about the musicianship talked about concerning the two bassists the OP mentioned. Dont hate the player, hate the game. LOL

Rob

 

[Stingray19]

Please tell me how this is "obvious". Facts please, no unsubstantiated hearsay crap spewed by folks who have a beef for whatever ridiculous reason!

Thank you!

I think that's what annoys me the most, that false claim.

 

[Stingray19]

HI

Its documented in the link a few posts back, Eric. Really kinda common knowledge. Goes for some other bands, also, who have "ghosted" parts when members were able to play due to rehab, jail, etc.

Im not bashing KISS. Just facts. I wish all musicians the best being one myself. Im not a KISS fan, its obvious. Wasnt influenced by them in the least bit. Its a big show!! Huge concerts, costumes, etc. Its all good. Not my thing but I can understand why many really like them. They've had great success touring over the years. Wealthy guys from it.

Was just trying to shed some more facts about the musicianship talked about concerning the two bassists the OP mentioned. Dont hate the player, hate the game. LOL

Rob

Yes, it's documented that he had ghost players in the 80's, but he did NOT have ghosts in the 70s, it's documented that he DID play on the 70s records. Period.

 

[Eric Perry]

HI

Its documented in the link a few posts back, Eric. Really kinda common knowledge. Goes for some other bands, also, who have "ghosted" parts when members were able to play due to rehab, jail, etc.

Im not bashing KISS. Just facts. I wish all musicians the best being one myself. Im not a KISS fan, its obvious. Wasnt influenced by them in the least bit. Its a big show!! Huge concerts, costumes, etc. Its all good. Not my thing but I can understand why many really like them. They've had great success touring over the years. Wealthy guys from it.

Was just trying to shed some more facts about the musicianship talked about concerning the two bassists the OP mentioned. Dont hate the player, hate the game. LOL

Rob

But Rob, ALL of the early discs (the ones where the great walking basslines shined) state Gene did play on them. I don't care who played on a song like Lick it Up, as a trained monkey with a harelip could play that. But those early songs, with the McCartney-esque walking lines and counter melodies? The site you mention clearly states Gene did in fact play on them.

 

[bikeplate]

HI

Im not spreading rumors, stingray. I was looking for some facts to back what I had read and the link is the proof I was looking for. Never said he didnt play on the early stuff. Frankly, I dont care to be honest. Not a fan. The link does show he really doesnt play that much anymore. The last couple records show other players recording most of the bass. So be it. Doesnt affect me one way of the other. Never said he sucked, just said Porcaro is accomplished and Gene is, well, not that accomplished. He does the KISS thing very well. Well, at least the early records, so you say. Porcaro does most things VERY well. Porcaro is a musician most of us aspire to be.

Rob

 

[Stingray19]

HI

Im not spreading rumors, stingray. I was looking for some facts to back what I had read and the link is the proof I was looking for. Never said he didnt play on the early stuff. Frankly, I dont care to be honest. Not a fan. The link does show he really doesnt play that much anymore. The last couple records show other players recording most of the bass. So be it. Doesnt affect me one way of the other. Never said he sucked, just said Porcaro is accomplished and Gene is, well, not that accomplished. He does the KISS thing very well. Well, at least the early records, so you say. Porcaro does most things VERY well. Porcaro is a musician most of us aspire to be.

Rob

I know you werent, it just.....makes me very mad, is all.


And he did, in fact play on the last 3 albums, and there were only 3 since the 80s anyway, so take that as you will. I posted a link of him playing on Sonic Boom, their most recent record.

This forum needs to shed the jazz snobs.



By the way, Gene is the example of a perfect rock bass player, period. That's not just my opinion, either, because 80% of other players in straight ahead rock bands DO NOT play basslines like Gene does, which are very Mccartney esque.


Ian Hill plays roots all the time, and nobody slags him......just sayin....

 

[5StringBlues]

Link Removed

 

[bikeplate]

HI

Cool, Eric. Never said he didnt. So the bass on the early records is more musical than the later records? Great.

Sorry guys but I dont get what you are trying to get across. If you like the early basslines, thats cool. Sounds like you guys are big KISS fans. I have my fave bands, also.

Are you saying he a great bassist or the band is great? I think neither but thats me. Kinda just a party band which took an image and with great marketing and catchy tunes, turned it into an outstanding business. Theyve been around for almost 40 years. I dont find their songs or musicianship to be substantial in any way. Others, obviously, would disagree. You cant be upset because I dont like them. Would be like you agree with bands I love. Silly to think that. You certainly cant argue with their success. Kinda like the Bruce Springsteen of Metal. Just cant kill them. They keep going and going and have a huge fan base. I went to a concert of theirs in '81 and we left halfway thru. Just not my thing, thats all.

If you love them, enjoy it. I dont. All I was stating is how surprising it was to see he really doesnt play that much and its his name on the product. Pretty strange. Also, I dont find the stuff he played on all that wonderful. You love it, I dont.

I certainly cant see comparing these two bassists. Certainly two different animals. Hope my explanation explains myself.

Rob

 

[Stingray19]

I want someone to tell me what their idea of a good bass player is, then listen to Gene's early material, and come back and tell me that Gene is not a good bass player.

I understand his lines may be easy to cop, but could you write lines like 100,000 Years, Goin Blind, or Strutter(just to name a few)???

 

[Eric Perry]

Cool, Eric. Never said he didnt. So the bass on the early records is more musical than the later records? Great.

I think it's really important to differentiate Early Gene from Modern Gene. His priorities went from musicianship to business, and his playing suffered drastically.

Are you saying he a great bassist or the band is great?

I do think he is (was?) a great bassist based on his incredibly tasteful melodies and contributions to the songs. He is VERY McCartney-ish, and I think we would all agree Paul wrote some amazing basslines. Is he anything at ALL like the stereotypical greats that get named here all the time (Jaco, Victor, Jamerson, etc)? Nope. But I consider him great in that he served the song and that's it.

I do not think Kiss is a great band musically, but I admit I love their stuff. I can acknowledge however that just 'cause I (or however many people) love them doesn't make them "great" by definition.

 

[Stingray19]

I think it's really important to differentiate Early Gene from Modern Gene. His priorities went from musicianship to business, and his playing suffered drastically.

I do think he is (was?) a great bassist based on his incredibly tasteful melodies and contributions to the songs. He is VERY McCartney-ish, and I think we would all agree Paul wrote some amazing basslines. Is he anything at ALL like the stereotypical greats that get named here all the time (Jaco, Victor, Jamerson, etc)? Nope. But I consider him great in that he served the song and that's it.

I do not think Kiss is a great band musically, but I admit I love their stuff. I can acknowledge however that just 'cause I (or however many people) love them doesn't make them "great" by definition.

I agree with all of this, except he plays fantasticly live. Also, he plays great on the new Sonic Boom records. Back to his classic playing style.

 

[bikeplate]

HI

Cool, Eric. I have the opposite opinion.

I feel they've made a career of touring and didnt write great albums. I dont think they even sold alot of records, am I correct? Sorta in the vein of Grateful Dead or Phish. Sorta a cult thing in a way although KISS is much more a mainstream thing. I remember, when I was in my early teens, how popular they were. They had dolls, tv shows and specials, their own movie, etc. People walked around school carrying their records, talked about them, etc. I never "got it" I found them to be kinda a circus, silly songs, simple arrangements. Not my thing. Its only my opinion guys. Dont hate me. LOL.

Im not a jazz snob but do like some jazz. I do believe we all can state an opinion on this board. I didnt bash him, just commented on the facts about his lack of playing on his own records and how I find his playing to be less than accomplished. There are many players that have influenced me. GS certainly isnt one of them. And no, not in the same league as Sir Paul, not even close. Sorry but thats how I feel

Rob

 

[Eric Perry]

HI

Cool, Eric. I have the opposite opinion.

I feel they've made a career of touring and didnt write great albums. I dont think they even sold alot of records, am I correct? Sorta in the vein of Grateful Dead or Phish. Sorta a cult thing in a way although KISS is much more a mainstream thing. I remember, when I was in my early teens, how popular they were. They had dolls, tv shows and specials, their own movie, etc. People walked around school carrying their records, talked about them, etc. I never "got it" I found them to be kinda a circus, silly songs, simple arrangements. Not my thing. Its only my opinion guys. Dont hate me. LOL.

Im not a jazz snob but do like some jazz. I do believe we all can state an opinion on this board. I didnt bash him, just commented on the facts about his lack of playing on his own records and how I find his playing to be less than accomplished. There are many players that have influenced me. GS certainly isnt one of them. And no, not in the same league as Sir Paul, not even close. Sorry but thats how I feel

Rob

No worries dude. We all have our things and that's cool. I'm just posting opinions, as you are. It'd be a boring planet if we all liked the same stuff!

One thing though, you admit to never listening to his early stuff, yet you say he's not even close to Paul's league. I'm curious how you can make such a blind statement? I think that's grossly unfair. You said " So the bass on the early records is more musical than the later records?". That apparently (to me) says you are unfamiliar with his early work. How can a (fair) comparison be made?

 

[fenderfunker]

Alright, let's just call it. You and I officially cannot communicate because you take everything I say to mean something else. Your first sentence above is wrong and not what I said at all. Should I ever find myself in NSW Australia, I look forward to not having a beer with you. But thanks for cluing me into that whole money/talent equation. Anything else super duper obvious you'd like to point out?

Yes. You are a snugglemuffin....:scowl:

 

[JimmyM]

...and we have the first official snap of the thread!