minor scale a myth?

[Fergie Fulton]

To Fergie: Sorry to do it, but Major and minor scales are 7 notes.

My answer to the OP is. You are speaking a language. A language that many Indierockers don't speak. If they don't speak the language there is no key to communicate. If you hired me for a session and said this is a 1 6 4 5 progression in A minor I would play Amin Fmaj Dmin and Emin. If you said it was a 1 6 4 5 progression in A Major I would play Amaj Fmin Dmaj and Emaj. For me, Theory is a way to condense musical ideas into a communicable form. If you can hear what you want to play in your head and play it perfectly who needs theory. If you are writing parts from other people and can figure out the parts all by ear. Awesome. If you can play a suitable part to another persons song without theory that is killer. I personally need the guide of theory.

LOL again i rest my case, over complication of a simple scale with eight notes. Complication as a word has 12 letters to spell it correctly, makes no difference how many are repeated. Major/minor scales in their application are the same.

 

[onlyclave]

My dad was an an Air Force major.Would that be considered a relative major?

www.instantrimshot.com

 

[LowBSix]

Tonic sensation, IMHO, exists prior to these theoretic identifiers, no matter their validity. I am asserting that defining terms and symbols, while significant, is after the fact.

Since I am under the impression the OP was remarking on the apparent volatility of his aural sensation of minor, I would hope that you would agree that asserting "identifying the 'Key' will create...[a] scale source to facilitate lines and notes...[if]...the melody does not take the piece to a key change by using accidentals," while possibly valid, does not address his perceptual report.

It seems that you are saying scale = key with assorted possible interpretations. Would we also agree that a single pitch, especially in the bass, may imply a harmonic context supporting a variety of tonic sensations, including but not limited to the well known scale degrees you have mapped?

Sorry if I'm not clear; I'm showing that there are different order to notes depending on the chord position within the key. The relative Major would be the Key, not any scale...

 

[bass player 48]

all i have to do is play the root note, then every other note i play is just in the relative major scale. it's as if i could just play the root, then slide up 3 half steps and play major. so is there any real difference/point between playing minor or root and relative major? thanks.

Hey - I don't play minors either... all that I ever do is play the major scale, but when people say "minor" I fool them by playing my 3rd, 6th, and 7th a half step down. Hehe. Most people don't even notice that I'm thinking about a major scale and only playing those 3 notes lower.

 

[LowBSix]

^^^Makes for some interesting voiceings

I'd guess reading on Harmony and Theory or perhaps a course of course, may be of assistance to some....

I guess playing music to some is more of a casual thing for some... Over the years, I've found it to be a store house of knowledge with a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow... but that works well for me...

Peace

 

[Zombbg4]

Fergie- It's not being complicated lol Is counting the number vowels complicating something simple like the alphabet? Its something important that you need to know in order to use it, and compared to the rest of theory not that complicated at all.

 

[jokerjkny]

www.instantrimshot.com

dam, i love this lounge...

 

[CatfishStudios]

I only play the chromatic scale. I just select which notes to leave out.

 

[CatfishStudios]

On fretless, its the catfishoidian scale..approximately 25 notes in between octaves.

 

[suraci]

Judging from many of the answers here

I suggest picking up a classical book on harmony
It contains the most in depth explanation of the Minor Mode.

It is a tad wordy, even philosophical, but more than any book I have seen, it explained to me the Minor Mode.
The book requires doing though- meaning you write out exercises according to his rules.
It is called "Theory of Harmony" by Arnold Schoenberg. It is a deep book, again, wordy, but this fellow was among 'theory of harmony book writers', a first class composer. The Piston harmony book pales by comparison.

Spend a few months with the book, doing the exercises. it will take that long to reach the Minor Mode.

It will help you all get a better grasp of harmony.

The question about fingerings and the similarity between major and minor scales, is absolutely irrelevant btw.

Modern books on harmony do not go nearly as in depth about Minor mode, especially harmony books written for jazz harmony. BTW, harmony is harmony, whether Country , Indie, or Baroque.

edit
If not interested in book
Harmony deals with modes. Minor, like Major, is primarily a Mode. Scales and chords help to establish the mode in the listeners ear.
I back up singers for a living on piano.. Intros are designed to help the singer hear their starting note, this means I play in such a way the makes the correct mode easily accessible to their "ear". The easy way is to play the last eight bars of the song. Just to play the first chord does NOT necessarily establish the Mode, key, and starting note. If I play a C chord, how does the singer know that that C chord is the I chord, the IV chord or the V chord??? There is more to even simple harmony, than "meets the eye".
Eg. If I want to establish a minor mode song that starts on a C minor chord in the key of C minor versus if I want to start a song that starts on Cm but it is in the key of Bb major... well do you see the problem?? Buy the book... do the exercises and be a better bass player/ musician, is my suggestion.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Fergie- It's not being complicated lol Is counting the number vowels complicating something simple like the alphabet? Its something important that you need to know in order to use it, and compared to the rest of theory not that complicated at all.

LOL well depends how you look at it The OP was about a minor scale, eight notes when i learnt it. So no complication there. As for vowels in the alphabet, there are five so no complication there, either unless we are going to point out that I and U does not include eye and ewe, or even aye and you.

 

[mambo4]

so is there any real difference/point between playing minor or root and relative major?

the notes are the same, how you play the and which ones you choose to emphasize are different.

Ultimately, it is not the key or scale but the chords you are expected to support which should inform your note choices.

 

[uethanian]

lately i've noticed that when practicing forms and making up lines/goofing around in a minor key, all i have to do is play the root note, then every other note i play is just in the relative major scale. it's as if i could just play the root, then slide up 3 half steps and play major. so is there any real difference/point between playing minor or root and relative major? thanks.

edit: this is not when playing classical or jazz or funk, more indie-esque... if that makes a difference.

from a historical standpoint (not that it matters, but that's just what i do)-

theorists have been arguing the existence of 'minor' for centuries. there's typically three ways to view it.
1)if major corresponds to the harmonic series, minor corresponds to the inverse of the harmonic series; so major = CEG, minor =CAbF
2)minor exists incidentally as a mode of the diatonic scale
3)major corresponds to harmonic divisions of a string, and minor corresponds to an equal division of a string

#3 doesn't doesn't really apply anymore, #2 refers to modes, #1 refers to chordal progression. in a nutshell.

 

[Pacman]

This isn't Technique related, so let's move it over to General Instruction.

 

[ashtray]

Actually, only a "natural minor" scale has the same notes as the relative major. The harmonic minor scale actually raises the 7th degree, and the melodic minor raises the 6th and 7th degrees on the way up, but not on the way down!

This gives a good explanation of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_scales

Basically, if you think of minor as having a completely different "feel" than major (sad vs happy, simplified) - then there's "options" in the 6th and 7th degrees of the scale depending on how you want it to sound. It's still minor, but a different kind of minor.

 

[suraci]

Actually i know a minor key folk song/dance, that is quite happy!!

The mode, key, scale, and chord progressions all steer the ear together towards, in this case, Minor Mode.


i also know a forgotten hit tune from the 70's that is in the key of shall we say Bb major, even with a bridge that is common in 40's music d7, G7, C7, F7... Yet not ONCE is there a Bb chord in the whole song.

There is a clear V7 chord, IV7 chord, II chord, etc , but no I chord. i wonder what the theory teacher would say about that?

 

[Billnc]

Actually i know a minor key folk song/dance, that is quite happy!!

The mode, key, scale, and chord progressions all steer the ear together towards, in this case, Minor Mode.


i also know a forgotten hit tune from the 70's that is in the key of shall we say Bb major, even with a bridge that is common in 40's music d7, G7, C7, F7... Yet not ONCE is there a Bb chord in the whole song.

There is a clear V7 chord, IV7 chord, II chord, etc , but no I chord. i wonder what the theory teacher would say about that?

The melody dictates the key, the chords support it. A melody will have a key and can modulate even if harmony is never considered. Also there are multiple ways to harmonize.

 

[IvanMike]

congrats! you have discovered the gregorian scales!

google that.

yes it does matter a great deal as despite the facts that c major and a minor share the same notes, the chord tones are different. and THAT makes all the difference..........

 

[bass player 48]

Wow -almost nobody has a sense of humor. I can't believe people are beinmg SO serious about a thread called "minor scale a myth"


I said:
Hey - I don't play minors either... all that I ever do is play the major scale, but when people say "minor" I fool them by playing my 3rd, 6th, and 7th a half step down. Hehe.

^^^Makes for some interesting voiceings

Did you think I was serious? Did you not get the joke?

Actually, only a "natural minor" scale has the same notes as the relative major. The harmonic minor scale actually raises the 7th degree, and the melodic minor raises the 6th and 7th degrees on the way up, but not on the way down!

^^^^^^
Yes - I think we all know that. We are talking about the natural minor and relative major, right? Of course there is other minor scales... not just natural minor, and harmonic - there's STILL others...

But this thread is only about "hey - both C maj and A min have no sharps and flats - I can play an A and slide up to C and goof around with the C major scale and it sounds okay while the guitar plays A minor chords..."


People should lighten up - this ain't heavy duty theory, don't try to make it that. Music should be FUN - people sometimes forget that when they talk abouit it.

IMO & YMMV (your minor may vary)

 

[Hoover]

Yes, if you had a vamp on a G minor chord and played the relative major, it will sound like you are starting on the third note of the minor scale.

Well... remember, he's the bass player. It's way more likely the listener will perceive his Bb as the root, and the band as vamping on the vi chord.

Which is I believe what the good doctor was getting to when he wrote:

The question of tonic sensation is at issue here. ...it begs the question of what establishes key in a given pop style.