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minor scale a myth?

H

houseparty5

Sep 12, 2009
5
0
#1
lately i've noticed that when practicing forms and making up lines/goofing around in a minor key, all i have to do is play the root note, then every other note i play is just in the relative major scale. it's as if i could just play the root, then slide up 3 half steps and play major. so is there any real difference/point between playing minor or root and relative major? thanks.

edit: this is not when playing classical or jazz or funk, more indie-esque... if that makes a difference.
 
#9
houseparty5 said:
lately i've noticed that when practicing forms and making up lines/goofing around in a minor key, all i have to do is play the root note, then every other note i play is just in the relative major scale. it's as if i could just play the root, then slide up 3 half steps and play major. so is there any real difference/point between playing minor or root and relative major? thanks.

edit: this is not when playing classical or jazz or funk, more indie-esque... if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...
It doesn't.

I got a kick out of the replies, but to give a real answer for once, the only difference is whether the emphasis is on the minor or major. You might play something different when you're in the minor than in the major.
 
#10
The relative Major being a Minor 3rd above (3 frets) is the VI minor Aeolian Mode
The relative Major being a Whole step below (2 frets) is the II Dorian Mode
The relative Major being a Major 3rd above (4 frets) is the Phrygian Mode

I - C Major
II - D Minor (Dorian)
III - E Minor (Phyrgian)
VI - A Minor (Aeolian)
 
#11
The question of tonic sensation is at issue here. What we hear as the key/tonic of given passage, and whether it is major or minor are what matter. If the OP is able to manipulate his or her sensation of tonic with a given bass line, fine, but it begs the question of what establishes key in a given pop style.

Major and relative minor are related, but they are not the same. The crucial difference is the use of a major triad (actual or implied) in minor as a dominant.
 
#12
Jim Carr said:
The question of tonic sensation is at issue here. What we hear as the key/tonic of given passage, and whether it is major or minor are what matter. If the OP is able to manipulate his or her sensation of tonic with a given bass line, fine, but it begs the question of what establishes key in a given pop style.
Click to expand...

I believe I answered the question of key source by defining modes/numerals

Major and relative minor are related, but they are not the same. The crucial difference is the use of a major triad (actual or implied) in minor. However the scale source is what I see the question, which was addressed in my previous answer.

The relative theory works within the modes, of course implementing the minor triads. Knowledge of modes/proper diatonic chord voices give way to scale sources and the ability to make note choices which can create style by the use of accidentals along with the diatonic.

Identifying the 'Key' will create your scale source to facilitate lines and notes that will apply in the event the melody does not take the piece to a key change by using accidentals/not belonging to the key.

:cool:
 
#13
Tonic sensation, IMHO, exists prior to these theoretic identifiers, no matter their validity. I am asserting that defining terms and symbols, while significant, is after the fact.

Since I am under the impression the OP was remarking on the apparent volatility of his aural sensation of minor, I would hope that you would agree that asserting "identifying the 'Key' will create...[a] scale source to facilitate lines and notes...[if]...the melody does not take the piece to a key change by using accidentals," while possibly valid, does not address his perceptual report.

It seems that you are saying scale = key with assorted possible interpretations. Would we also agree that a single pitch, especially in the bass, may imply a harmonic context supporting a variety of tonic sensations, including but not limited to the well known scale degrees you have mapped? :cool:
 
#14
Simple answer is we have eight notes in a scale.
So it is those eight notes that define a scale.
It is the order of the intervals (tones and semitones) within that scale that will define it as major or minor.

As Hendrix said;

Standing next to a mountain....gonna chop it down with the edge of my hand.

As Hendrix did not say;

Gonna chop down a mountain..... standing next to, with the edge of my hand

Same words, different order, different tension, different impact, different song.
 
#16
praisebass said:
...unless it's a whole tone scale, or pentatonic scale, or...
Click to expand...

Which is why they would be called, whole tone, pentatonic, major, minor or...:confused:

What we have here is adult compication of a simple matter of the OPs question. So i assume a major and minor scale has eight notes, well seven notes actually, eight different pitches, as the tonic and the tonic are these same, sorry that's not obvious, the tonic and the tonic are an octave apart when applied to scales, sorry is that still confusing?...well the root note of a scale, the first note you play of the eight different notes, i did say that they were different, well when i say different.....opps getting overcomplicated again.....lets keep it simple;)
 
#17
My point in bringing up a six note (whole tone) and five note (pentatonic) scale is that not all scales are eight notes and not all music conforms to classical modes. Music Theory is to music as Grammar is to language. Theory seeks to describe music and can be used to construct music but most music, certainly pop music is not bound by classical modes.

Anyway, that’s my excuse when I play off pitch on my fretless – I ain’t out of tune – I’m micro-tonal! ;)
 
#19
praisebass said:
My point in bringing up a six note (whole tone) and five note (pentatonic) scale is that not all scales are eight notes and not all music conforms to classical modes. Music Theory is to music as Grammar is to language. Theory seeks to describe music and can be used to construct music but most music, certainly pop music is not bound by classical modes.

Anyway, that’s my excuse when I play off pitch on my fretless – I ain’t out of tune – I’m micro-tonal! ;)
Click to expand...

LOL;) i love the micro-tonal.
 
#20
To Fergie: Sorry to do it, but Major and minor scales are 7 notes.

My answer to the OP is. You are speaking a language. A language that many Indierockers don't speak. If they don't speak the language there is no key to communicate. If you hired me for a session and said this is a 1 6 4 5 progression in A minor I would play Amin Fmaj Dmin and Emin. If you said it was a 1 6 4 5 progression in A Major I would play Amaj Fmin Dmaj and Emaj. For me, Theory is a way to condense musical ideas into a communicable form. If you can hear what you want to play in your head and play it perfectly who needs theory. If you are writing parts from other people and can figure out the parts all by ear. Awesome. If you can play a suitable part to another persons song without theory that is killer. I personally need the guide of theory.




Fergie Fulton said:
Simple answer is we have eight notes in a scale.
So it is those eight notes that define a scale.
It is the order of the intervals (tones and semitones) within that scale that will define it as major or minor.

As Hendrix said;

Standing next to a mountain....gonna chop it down with the edge of my hand.

As Hendrix did not say;

Gonna chop down a mountain..... standing next to, with the edge of my hand

Same words, different order, different tension, different impact, different song.
Click to expand...
 

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