Missionary to....

[Tom Crofts]

Oh, so starting a war for political or economic reasons is acceptable, but starting them for religious reasons is not? That's ludicrous.

My point is that we shouldn't all judge each other on actions that took place in the past by people who claimed to believe what we believe. Which is what most athiest people do when referring to the crusades. Religion may have played a part in the crusades, but many, many more people have died in the last 100 years in wars started by non-religious people over non-religious matters - like economics or politics. Should we all decide then that economics has become so 'twisted', or politics become so corrupted that both serve no use to mankind because wars started as a result of them? No. Of course people's "beliefs can be twisted and their faith used against them". Especially when they believe things like the power of economy and place their faith in things like governments.

Religion is only one of many ideas that has been used to justifiy war in the past. Why people speak as though it is the only one is beyond me. I think perhaps people with an anti-religion agenda choose to ignore economics, greed, politics, and the other issues that have caused man to war in order to make religion look bad. A smear campaign if you will.

I did NOT say that starting a war for political or economic reasons was ok, in fact I specifically stated that I thought war was stupid and that we are 'all humans and should treat each other with respect whatever race or religion we are'. I did not choose to ignore politics and economics as causes of war. I explained that these were in fact mostly the cause of WWI so I'm not entirely sure where you're going with the smear campaign idea...

However, going to war because a country that you are on good terms with and are allied with is invaded by another country is a better reason to go to war than 'because your mythical guy in the sky is better than another country's.' I'm quoting myself because although you've included my post in your post you seem to have completely ignored what I've said and gone off on one about a smear campaign against religion.

Also, in my last post I did not talk about the distant past but about the Taliban, not really that far in the past is it?

With regards your sentiments about economics and politics I agree. They have to an extent become twisted and corrupted. I don't want this thread to get closed down, but IMO the war in Iraq is more to do with greed, politics and economics than any other cause. I have said that I would prefer it if everyone could get along and I feel that religion can be a barrier to that, something else to cause alienation between people, when in reality we only have each other on this planet.

Again, I said in my last post that I am NOT judging every religious person, I don't expect the next Christian or Muslim or whatever religion I see to stab me in the face. However, religion does give a small minority an excuse to cause a hell of a lot of trouble. I'm not telling you to stop believing in God, as I said in my previous post. However, I do not feel that people of any religion have the right to attempt to force their beliefs on anyone, especially udner the guise of helping them. By all means go to a developing country, help them, build schools, hospitals, dig wells, whatever. But do it for the right reasons. Because you want to help people out of the goodness of your heart. Not to increase your chances of getting into heaven or converting people to your beliefs.

I hope this clarifies the points I made previously.

 

[CBRStingray]

... However, religion does give a small minority an excuse to cause a hell of a lot of trouble...

It is one of MANY things that can be an excuse for a minority to cause a lot of trouble, but a lot of people seem to (wrongly) treat religion as though it's the ONLY thing that does. That is the summarised point of everything I've said. You seem to have missed that entirely. My last post wasn't intended as an attack on you personally BTW

 

[jondog]

I personally think that if someone holds the Christian beliefs to heart, then it would be a greater crime to keep you mouth shut. Remember Christians believe that Jesus is the way to eternal life, and that not believing in him, is detrimental. So they believe they have a moral responsibility to tell you "the Truth", and most Christians don't think it any different than telling a man that he is about to walk off a cliff. So if a missionary speaks to you, and you don't wanna hear it, then tell em to go away. But I have heard stories about people who were feeling rejected and about to give up on life, and a missionary spoke to them, and now they are Christians, and happy about it, so great for them.

...

I don't want to deny that many people who convert are happier etc. However, IMO, the point above is the crux of the problem -- any ideology/religion that teaches that you know better than other people, that they are inherently inferior and have no chance of getting out of that inferiority without accepting your ideas, sets up a serious power imbalance. Instead of treating others as equals who might have something to teach you, others are seen as having *nothing* important to share because all of the important stuff is already known. I prefer equality and education to proseletizing from superiors, however much they want to help me.

 

[Torch7]

I don't want to deny that many people who convert are happier etc. However, IMO, the point above is the crux of the problem -- any ideology/religion that teaches that you know better than other people, that they are inherently inferior and have no chance of getting out of that inferiority without accepting your ideas, sets up a serious power imbalance.

I can see your point... and agree that often times, over zealous folks may come across that way... especially when other ideaologies are brought into the conversation...

There should never be a elitest attitude displayed due to someones enlightenment to any religious belief, after all they didn't figure it out themselves... but as it is said "Revelation, makes one puffed up" and that's a case of that person, not understanding what they are attempting to accomplish towards the greater cause...

But you point is well taken.

 

[gsys]

You know, atheism is just another religion. If you were being intellectually honest, you'd be an agnostic.

BS

 

[plexibass]

i have a question and i really am sincere in this and i'm not trying to be a jerk or a smartass. why do people feel the need to be of a particular "religion"? i mean i live my life according to my morals and values taught by my parents. has anyone here ever experienced a "miracle".? there were a ton of "miracles" during biblical times but why not now? it would seem to me with iran threating to nuke us today that "god" should probably step in and do something. it would seem to me that now more than ever "god" needs to prove he/she/it exists to people like me because i dont see a whole lot of good going on in the world right now. i just find it hard to believe a book that was written 1500 years after the "fact" is credible