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mixer and components for an IEM system

I am looking to put together an IEM system for my 5 piece band.

I am very familiar with running medium size full band live sound, and I have done some research, and observed other bands running these systems in the venues we play.

Is there anyone here who runs their own IEM system in medium, and even small venues, who could school me on the finer points before I put $2500 to $3500 worth of gear on my credit card?

I don't really need to hear from folks who don't already understand the benefits of hearing yourself & the other musicians on stage, but I could deffinintly use to hear from folks who understand, use, and run this kind of system.
 
We would run a seperate console for the monitor mixes. We would send our signals to the FOH, from our deticated monitor mixer (we would use a purpose built mixer, with built in splits, and enough mixes to cover the 5 seperate mixes that we would need).

The band consists of:

Lead vocal + electric guitar

Bass + backing vocal

Drummer with click that may go into other players ears

Steel Guitar who may want / need to hear his (otherwise) muted signal for tuning purposes (uses an amp)

Fiddle (uses an amp)

Fiddle and lead singer / guitar would for sure use wireless IEMs.

Drums & Steel can use hard wired signal to their IEMs.

Bass (me) can use hard wired if (financially) necessary, until I feel like spending the $500 for a transmitter.

My specific concerns are ease of setting up, potential points of failure, failure to get proper cooperation from house FOH soundman, etc.

What is the easiest way to make this happen, in a way that does not include having a full time dedicated monitor engineer ( I would pull double duty, running the IEM system)?
 
Sure.. I've done this..

Find a recording deck with 4-6 auxes.. then figure 300-500/head for Rolls PM351/350 or PM50 boxes.

You may have some custom wiring to do (snake)

The Sure intro setup will cost a bit more than your budget... or you can find used.

Unless you have 100% band buy in, may be a pain to implement.


Opinion.. DO NOT buy it on your own.. for a band to convert you need 100% buy in.

IEM is my preferred method.
 
I do this all the time with my band.


I use a MOTU 828mkIII.
It is a small mixer , work as standalone , no need for a computer to work.
A computer is very helpfull for the setup though , the little window can be a pain !
But once the setup is made , save and that's it , just recall the preset and you have your setup.
It has a 6 band full parametric EQ + LPF/HPF on each in and out + comp/limiter + reverb.

You can have 8 different stereo mixes , has 28 inputs , 30 outputs , for 700$ !!!!!!!!

It has 2 preamp and 8 line inputs , 16 ADAT I/O so you'll extra preamps/converters.
Stuff like these are very OK for "live" use ; http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigiMaxD8/

The "touchy" part is the split snake. You'll need a split snake to feed your kit and the FOH. There are zillions of choices and prices. To be on the "safe" side , I would suggest to go with an isolated split snake. But they can be pricey.
(Personaly , I made it myself with Neutrik Trannies , cost me less than 300 for 12 channels)

We are all hardwired through our own headphone amps. The singer is wireless.
 
I like our Allen & Heath MixWizard3. It has 6 aux sends. We're using Shure PSM 200 IEM. While not top of the line, everyone seems to be very happy with them. Especially, lead singer/guitard. He says with the IEMs he can sing all night and not blow out his voice.

The mixer allows each guy to have his own personal monitor mix.
 
You only have 7 input channels to monitor (2 Vox, guitar, bass, click, steel guitar, and fiddle) . I have $110 in an 8 channel passive split snake that I built from two brand new snakes I got from ebay. I set the split snake box right next to the house snake towards the front of the stage. I take my 8 channels that I want to sent to monitors and plug them into the split box, and anything else that doesn't need to be in monitors (mainly drums) goes right to the house snake. We then plug the 8 channels out of the split snake into the house snake with the first of the splits, and the soundman is happy and can do his thing without affecting us. I haven't experienced any issues yet going passive splits personally. For $100, it's worth a try to see if it works on all of your venues. We run our own FOH at half of our shows, and it has always integrated with existing FOH as well.

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The 2nd leg of the split snake is a 35' 8 ch cable that goes back to the monitor mixer sitting between the drums and the bass rig. Everyone mobile can reach it, or we just yell over to give me a little more of this or that. You can go cheap on the mixer. It’s only a monitor mix. Our mixer is a Behringer 2442 mixer with 4 aux sends, and 10 XLR inputs. You can get a 5th mix by using a sub out as the 5th aux channel, but since it’s post fader, you will want to set that one first, and not touch it much, or you will effect the other 4 mixes as well.. Another alternative is to just use one of the 4 other auxes. Chances are one will be more than acceptable for the 5th guy. Set all 4 to post fade so you can use a little bit of channel strip EQ if you want it. This mixer is $299 new. I have seen them for $150 gently used. Use your extra cash and buy your wireless system, or buy something with 5+ aux sends.

From the back of the mixer, there are 4 aux sends. Aux 1 and 2 will go directly into each wireless transmitter for your Fiddle and Lead members. Aux 3 and Aux 4 (and potentially the sub out for the aux 5) will go directly into a 4 to 6 channel headphone amp. Behringer makes a 4 channel for around $100, and ART makes a 6 channel for around $150). I have used the same Behringer model in our practice IEM setup for over 10 years, so it was a well spent $100.

You can also save a split snake channel by putting the click track into the 2442 directly since it doesn’t ever need to go to the FOH, and the drummer can easily take a mic cable to the mixer. You could also put a extra mic or two around the stage or drumset and plug it into the monitor mixer as well, if you actually need drums in the monitor mix.

From there, get 3 50’ headphone extension cables from parts express for $6 each. Send the cable around the stage to you, the drums, and the steel guitar. Plug in your headphones or IEMs and you should be set for a while. As the wired members start gaining confidence in the IEMs, they can buy their own wireless system and move the input of the headphone amp over to their new transmitter.

I would also buy a cheap 10U slanted mixer rack with 4 to 6U of space for a power strip, transmitters as you get them, and the headphone amp. You could also throw in a class D amp in the bottom, as well as a stereo 15 band EQ to tame feedback. You will only need this if you ever share the stage with guest musicians and want to be able to control the monitors. You could even buy a powered monitor if that works for you. You could also leave that to the FOH guy as well, but I wouldn’t put a monitor on stage with IEMs that I couldn’t control. It just depends on your needs and if it’s a once in a while thing, or more often.

$110 for split snake
$300 for mixer
$100 for headphone amp
$20 in headphone cables
$200 for optional rack
$600 for each wireless transmitter
$30-$300 each for IEMs/headphones

Good luck!
Wes
 
I sure can.

1 8 Channel 30' Stage Snake $70
1 8 Channel 3 Feet XLR Studio Patch Audio Snake $25

For my prototype, I just went to the hardware store and purchased a $4 strain relief from the electrical department, but you can get the real strain reliefs from internet suppliers. Plastic ones are $2, and metal ones are around $15, and those have the braided relief build in them.

All you need to do is drill a hole in the stage box for the strain relief, cut one end of the 3' snake off, install the relief, pass the wire through, then parallel all those wires to the back of the jack's pins. When done, test continuity with a multimeter. Each channel has 3 wires, and pin 1 of the two splits and the jack should all be tied together, Pin 2 of the two splits and jack should all be tied together, and pin 3 of the two splits and the jack should all be tied together. Put it back together and you are done.

ry%3D400.jpg


Good luck,

Wes
 
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Our Behringer mixer sitting on stage so we can each adjust our mix. Used it last night. Set it once during soundcheck and it was good all night.

ry%3D400.jpg


The split snake plugged into the house snake. The coil is what goes over to the monitor mixer. This is just prior to running all the instrument mic cables from the source to the split snake box. The drums plug into the FOH snake directly, as well as a talkback mic back to the monitor mixer for the soundman to talk to us.
 
We have started simple and cheap and upgraded a few times over the past 6 yrs. to get the ultimate system. It cost us more $ to do it wrong and figure out what we needed than to just buy the correct gear right away. if you want good quality mixes, it costs money, but improves your performance potential exponentially.

We started with just in-ear units from the (mono) aux of the house. = sloppy and dangerous, someone else has control and most club house engineers will turn a knob too far and possibly blow your ears!

Next was Crest XRM = able to do 12 STEREO mixes and has a splitter built in to it....Stereo panning (between 2 aux's) clears up your mix considerably and allows you to place the players where you want, which makes each individual MUCH easier to hear. This was a breakthrough for us. It's mostly knobs which are more consistent than faders, it is rackmountable, so if you put it in one the combo mixer racks, you can house your whole rig in one rack and roll it in pre-connected. This is an easy setup and works as a front of house mixer in a pinch as well. However, there are no built in effects.

Next we went to the Mackie TT24 with a splitter. This step took us into digital console land, which allows you to recall ear mixes (and Main mixes) of certain venues, and most importantly add effects. It is very user friendly and can call up just about anything with 1-2 buttons. It has built-in recallable compression, delay, verbs, eq, etc. PER CHANNEL. which means if I want more verb on my voice than the lead singers in MY MIX, I can w/o affecting the singers mix. Effects are important in an ear mix because the ear buds block out most of the stage and mains sound giving you a really dry isolated sound. There's no air or space in there...so you have to create it with either a verb unit, or an onstage open mic (which changes sound with every room and I don't recommend it except for hearing the crowd noise). Compression keeps your vocals (and others vocals) steady in your mix. Individual compression caters to each singers style. Initially this set up takes time and patience, but once set up, it cuts your soundcheck in half because it is very consistent. There are still a few tweaks for every different room, but nothing major. This board has 8 mono aux or 4 stereo aux and capable of 4 individual effects. This is the entry level digital console...and the effects are not top notch, but got us through a few years of gigs b4 it gave us some glitches (solved by firmware updates and resets).

We now have a system that's probably out of your budget, but its a digidesgn Venue 48 with Sennheiser 300 IEM systems and a multipin snake box with antenna fins, etc....total cost was something stupid like $40,000? even with endorsements. The quality really is stunning, and there's never drop out or audible channel changes, etc. its just flawless and uses all pro-tools plug-ins.

Yamaha makes a relatively affordable digital board called the LS9. Same concept as the TT24....but better quality.

Whatever ears units you use, I would recommend using a system where the body packs use AA batteries. They have a longer life than the 9V systems. If you buy used, make sure your units do not use the BANNED FREQUENCY RANGE! They're starting to crack down and the fines are outrageous. If you go Shure, don't go less than the 400 model. Most Sennheiser's are good quality. There's a cheap foreign company called Mipro and their stuff is OK for the price.

To go the extra mile, I would recommend tossing the buds that come with the IEM in your gym bag, and getting molded ear buds. There are companies out there that will do cost effective quality jobs. Here's one out of Nashville, http://www.fidelitycustomearphones.net/ Almost all companies make single driver, dual driver and some make triple driver buds. my understanding is that the triple drivers are NOT 3-way crossed over. They are 2 low drivers and one high freq driver. The dual drivers are good for Drums and Bass players, the single drivers are just fine for singers and guitar players. The tighter the seal on your buds, the more low end you will hear. If you as a bassist sing, you might have trouble with your buds loosing their seal as your ear shape changes as you move your jaw.

Careful not to get too greedy with your volume, as it is very easy to damage your hearing, making the whole point of getting IEM's null and void. Start at the lowest volume possible, and use any stage noise to your advantage. I could get into a psychology discussion on how they change the vibe of the gig, but that's a whole different thread! Good Luck!
 
Sorry about the lengthy reply...With all of that being said, the EASIEST and CHEAPEST route, is a rackmountable 16 channel board with at least 6 auxes. Get 3 IEM units with extra body packs on each, and use BOTH channels separately in dual mono mode, panned hard on the body packs giving you 2 ear mixes per unit. (there is some crosstalk, but it's tolerable on a small stage) Make A 16 Channel Splitter as suggested by Wes Whitmore, and stick a general microVerb fed by the 6th Aux and come back through an empty channel giving everyone a bit of space in their mix with some adjustability. If needed, compress VOX accordingly through inserts. Use a Furman for clean power. Stick all of this in a mixer rack which is prewired internally and on casters with the splitter snake stored in the bottom compartment. Should be an OK starter setup within your budget constraints and save you setup time as well.

I just know from experience, that if you plan on being in this band for an extended period of time, you will more than likely want to upgrade...hence the previous post.
 
I like our Allen & Heath MixWizard3. It has 6 aux sends. We're using Shure PSM 200 IEM. While not top of the line, everyone seems to be very happy with them. Especially, lead singer/guitard. He says with the IEMs he can sing all night and not blow out his voice.

The mixer allows each guy to have his own personal monitor mix.

I am not familiar with them, i guess i also need to know more about this guys for personal monitor mix.
 
I wonder if all things related to this topic could be put together in an FAQ that would then be made a sticky.

The same questions on this topic come up week after week and it seems like it would save a lot of peoples time if there was a single source that could be checked out first.

Just a suggestion...