Mixer question!

[Jake Saint]

So i've been a sound tech for (quite) a few years, but i've hit something that stumps me.

at my church, where i run sound, i run out of a Yamaha MG166CXUSB. looks like this:

i bought a little Behringer four channel mixer to help me expand that a bit, without buying a stupidly huge board. i've got a 20 channel snake, with sixteen channels in use.

how in the heck can i link them together, without ONLY gaining two channels?

 

[bongomania]

Does the Yamaha have a pair of aux inputs to the main mixdown?

 

[ggunn]

So i've been a sound tech for (quite) a few years, but i've hit something that stumps me.

at my church, where i run sound, i run out of a Yamaha MG166CXUSB. looks like this:

i bought a little Behringer four channel mixer to help me expand that a bit, without buying a stupidly huge board. i've got a 20 channel snake, with sixteen channels in use.

how in the heck can i link them together, without ONLY gaining two channels?

The Yammy may have a pair of aux inputs that you can use to stack the mains, but if you are using monitor and effects channels on the main board, combining them with those for the satellite board may still be problematic.

 

[Jake Saint]

The Yammy may have a pair of aux inputs that you can use to stack the mains, but if you are using monitor and effects channels on the main board, combining them with those for the satellite board may still be problematic.

hmmm.... might be time to take a much closer look at my board tonight...

 

[ggunn]

hmmm.... might be time to take a much closer look at my board tonight...

Another thing to at least take a look at is the feasibility of stacking them the other way, i.e., using the small board as the main and stacking the Yammy into it.

But there is no real substitute for having a large enough board.

 

[Jake Saint]

After taking a closer look at some pics, i might have access to the 13/14 channel on the yammy through RCA's... go from the satellite's headphones to there... hmmmm.....

 

[animvl]

You could use it in mono (use only one of outputs such as left) and gain three extra tracks. Stereo is unnecessary for most live sound applications because there are so few people in the "sweet spot", so just send some of the mono stuff (like lead vocals) to this additional mixer.

 

[Jake Saint]

You could use it in mono (use only one of outputs such as left) and gain three extra tracks. Stereo is unnecessary for most live sound applications because there are so few people in the "sweet spot", so just send some of the mono stuff (like lead vocals) to this additional mixer.

yeah, was going to use it for drum mics, since my drummer likes to play with brushes, and when he does that acoustically, we can't hear him... i'll see how it comes out. no matter what, by plugging into that 13/14 RCA, i'm gaining four tracks, since that's a "dead" channel with the way this disaster was originally set up.

 

[lowfreq33]

I'm a little unclear as to what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[lowfreq33]

Wait, I get it now. Run the small board's main out into the Yamaha's aux returns. 20 channels.

 

[Jake Saint]

I'm a little unclear as to what you're trying to accomplish.

expand my available channels without having to buy a significantly larger board. i've got a 22 channel snake, with 20 channels available, thanks to two being used for monitors. however, i only have a sixteen channel board, so i've got four dead XLR spots that i could potentially use, or two XLR's and two instruments. just want to expand that full four channels without only having only two of them actually gained.

*edit* ahah. that's one of the things i'm thinking. idk. we'll see what happens tonight.

 

[ggunn]

Wait, I get it now. Run the small board's main out into the Yamaha's aux returns. 20 channels.

That would work for the mains, but if he is using aux sends for monitors and/or effects, those on the satellite board will still be isolated. Transparently stacking two boards is often a non-trivial exercise.

 

[ggunn]

Stereo is unnecessary for most live sound applications because there are so few people in the "sweet spot"...

This is a very common argument among soundpersons. I, for one, do not think that is universally true. Does the stereo in your living room only sound good from your recliner in the "sweet spot"?

IMO, whether live stereo works in a given situation is more dependent on the room than anything else. In a room without too much bounce (or outside), you can build a stereo mix that sounds good for everyone.

 

[lowfreq33]

That would work for the mains, but if he is using aux sends for monitors and/or effects, those on the satellite board will still be isolated. Transparently stacking two boards is often a non-trivial exercise.

Just have to prioritize what goes to the Yamaha. Whatever goes to the small mixer should be things that don't need effects, or to be in the monitors.

 

[ggunn]

Just have to prioritize what goes to the Yamaha. Whatever goes to the small mixer should be things that don't need effects, or to be in the monitors.

If he can do that. As I said, it's often non-trivial. I have done it many times but I never liked it.

 

[bongomania]

This is a very common argument among soundpersons. I, for one, do not think that is universally true. Does the stereo in your living room only sound good from your recliner in the "sweet spot"?

IMO, whether live stereo works in a given situation is more dependent on the room than anything else. In a room without too much bounce (or outside), you can build a stereo mix that sounds good for everyone.

All of that is irrelevant to this specific case. He doesn't have an "inherently stereo" mix that one should argue about whether it sounds equally good in stereo throughout the room. In fact he has a collection of inherently MONO channels, that could--if he had the luxury of enough channels--be turned into stereo. So the question was whether there would be enough benefit to the stereo effect throughout the room, for it to be worth the trouble--and the answer to that is "probably not".

 

[Jake Saint]

just to clarify one thing, the yammy has dedicated monitor outputs, which are already plugged in, just not in use atm, since my church, a satellite campus of Times Square Church in NYC, doesn't have them yet.

 

[animvl]

This is a very common argument among soundpersons. I, for one, do not think that is universally true. Does the stereo in your living room only sound good from your recliner in the "sweet spot"?

IMO, whether live stereo works in a given situation is more dependent on the room than anything else. In a room without too much bounce (or outside), you can build a stereo mix that sounds good for everyone.

It is a very common argument, so lets forego it this time. I do agree with you that what I said isn't universal and it does depend on the room though.

 

[1954bassman]

Simple solution: return the 4 channel mixer, and exchange it for a small 6 or 8 channel. Use this new mixer as a sub mixer for drums, vocals, whatever, and plug a mono send from it into any channel of the yamaha.

Then with the 20 lines from your snake: 15 direct to the yamaha, and the other 5 into your new 6 (or more) channel mixer (hopefully not a Behringer)

If it is too late to return the 4 channel mixer, then just keep it as an aquarium decoration, and buy a small 6 channel mixer.

I am hoping you have a sense of humor, BTW.

 

[5StringFool]

After taking a closer look at some pics, i might have access to the 13/14 channel on the yammy through RCA's... go from the satellite's headphones to there... hmmmm.....

Try this:

If you look closely you'll see two RCA inputs on the Yamaha, just after the Channel 15/16 RCA's marked 2TR IN. You could connect the outs from your small mixer to these inputs and adjust the level of the drum sub mix by using the white 2TR/USB knob just above your Master Mix fader. I don't think that signal would route to your monitor mix at all though, but usually drums don't get pumped through the monitor anyway.

Of course if you're already using that input then the idea is a bit moot.