Hi all. I've read threads about mixing different size speakers, like using a 10 and a 12 together. Most folks think it's a bad idea, and while I'm not a real audio kind of guy I think I understand the reasoning. But what about mixing different brands of speakers of the same size? For example, using a Wizzy 10 along with the AI ten 2 ext. cab. What might the issues or drawbacks there be? Thanks!!!
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Double Bass Mixing speakers
- Thread starter klem.gote
- Start date
As long as the total load impedance doesn't go below your amp's minimum safe load (such as 4 ohms) you can use any combination of speakers you want. I have used many different speaker combinations over the years -- various sizes and brands. Some combinations just work better than others, but otherwise there are no rules. Feel free to experiment. (I've had some odd combinations that I put together in a pinch that worked amazingly well.)
Hi.
An exellent thread.
Mixing speakers is mainly a guitarist thing. They use the speaker to shape the sound, not to "transparently" distribute it.
Some do it because their favourite player does so, some actually put some effort into it to acchieve their dream tone by combining differently behaving speakers. Usually that's done in a single enclosure though, not with separate cabs.
If You rely on tone colouring speakers to acchieve your tone, then mixing speakers may work, otherwise it's very rare that they do.
Sure it may sound fine close up, and if Your rig only acts as a stage monitor it will probably go unnoticed (or at least it doesn't bother anyone too much), but if you're not in the PA, pretty strange uneven sound is most likely the result in the audience.
With a rock'n roll, rockabilly, swing, perhaps C&W (bar) gigs where people are free to wander around, they can always move to a better location if they care about how the music is balanced, but on a fixed seating gig everyone's pretty much stuck with what they have. I for one wouldn't want to rob anyone from having a pleasurable listening experience.
Regards
Sam
An exellent thread.
Mixing speakers is mainly a guitarist thing. They use the speaker to shape the sound, not to "transparently" distribute it.
Some do it because their favourite player does so, some actually put some effort into it to acchieve their dream tone by combining differently behaving speakers. Usually that's done in a single enclosure though, not with separate cabs.
If You rely on tone colouring speakers to acchieve your tone, then mixing speakers may work, otherwise it's very rare that they do.
Sure it may sound fine close up, and if Your rig only acts as a stage monitor it will probably go unnoticed (or at least it doesn't bother anyone too much), but if you're not in the PA, pretty strange uneven sound is most likely the result in the audience.
With a rock'n roll, rockabilly, swing, perhaps C&W (bar) gigs where people are free to wander around, they can always move to a better location if they care about how the music is balanced, but on a fixed seating gig everyone's pretty much stuck with what they have. I for one wouldn't want to rob anyone from having a pleasurable listening experience.
Regards
Sam
I have a Carvin MB12 that has a sealed 12 on an angled baffle, 6.5 midrange & tweeter as my main combo. Sounds great for my applications, and it is versatile enough to serve for either EB or DB (or mixed) gigs. When I really need reinforcement of that lowest 1/2 octave to carry the house, I stack it on a 1X15 ported cab on casters, both for portability and de-coupling of the floor, I've had for, well, quite awhile, loaded with a Carvin Driver. If I need more than that, the combo has an XLR DI out and I use it as a monitor and let the sound man worry about it. Since all drivers in my system are from the same company, phase is not an issue, and I get compliments all the way around for tone. The extension cab is rated appropriately in both impedance, power handling and efficiency to match the combo, and that, along with staying with the same manufacturer, avoids all of the problems that can occur as mentioned in Drurb's thread: phasing, impedance matching, efficiency matching, feedback, etc.
Lots of interesting info. Thanks for that other thread drurb. Wasn't really thinking about the effect on tone, was thinking more about more sound (volume) when needed. My amp can handle 2 ohm loads so that ok. I guess maybe I'll just have to try at some point and see what happens!!
I work with a A.I. Contra and a E.A. Wizzy 10". It works pretty good together, one helps the other for a good range of highs,mids, and lows...
Well I used the Ten2 ext. cab for the first time last night. I used a Clarus with it. Was a quartet gig. Obviously plenty of sound for that, but was also told repeatedly how good the sound was. Quite pleased, though I still have some learning to do as far as tweaking, different rooms etc. Don't have a gig where I can pair my Wizzy 10 with it till and outdoor gig next weekend. Looking forward to giving it a try!! Thanks for your advice on this!
bassdaddyfive said:
I've done something similar and sat my AI Contra on top of an Avatar 112 cab (lovely DB speaker) with the AI's speakers running as well. Mid-sized room and was told by a fellow bassist/builder at the bar that the sound was very natural and warm. I actually prefer this to running the Contra with it's matching extension speaker--other than the kind of envelopment you get with the extension at some distance from the amp.
I have been doing something similar too. I just acquired a 1x15 cab that is encased and on casters. I was told it is probably an ampeg and I believe it was made in 1970 or 71. I put my AI Contra Series I on top for the last couple of gigs and got fairly good results.
However, I feel like there is not enough headroom because the AI does not have enough power. This lead me to buy a Genz Benz 6.0 Shuttle with 600 watts. Its great with the 1x15, but now I am thinking I want the option of adding a 1x10 like the Wizzy or a 2x10 for more clarity in the mids and highs.
I figure I can also use the smaller cab with the GB if desired on smaller gigs.
Any suggestions for me here? Keep in mind I use this rig for both double and slab. I just wan the most versatile equipment at a reasonable price.
Read the first post in the thread linked to above very carefully (here again).
There are innumerable threads on this topic on the BG side; Bill Fitzmaurice frequently answers questions on this topic. It should also be noted that the diameter of the speaker cone does not in and of itself affect the tonal spectrum it produces, but smaller drivers have a wider dispersion of these upper and mid-frequencies, so they are better heard off-axis. Unfortunately, if you mix driver sizes, you do open yourself up to unpredictable phasing problems, as is carefully explained in the link above.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I don't see any real problems with this... assuming that they are both front loaded bass reflex type speakers (you don't want to mix different TYPED of cabinet like a folded horn with a front loaded) and that the are both wired with the same polarity (the industry has generally standardized on positive voltage on the positive (red) terminal moves the cone outward on a conventional cabinet. (positive pressure for positive voltage).
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I'm genuinely curious -- do you feel that the concerns over phasing and sensitivity mismatches are overstated, or simply ignored by many users?
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I think that for like classes of speaker (similar speaker type, polarity, sensitivity, impedance), concerns over combined use is overstated.
I also think that there are indeed quite a few combinations that do not deliver quite as "good" performance as identical combinations but frankly, if the player likes the sound better then that's what really matters right?
I also think that there are indeed quite a few combinations that do not deliver quite as "good" performance as identical combinations but frankly, if the player likes the sound better then that's what really matters right?
Fair enough. I suspect what often happens (at least on the other side of the board) is that assumptions are made regarding speaker tone based on cone diameter, and cabinets are mixed accordingly (115 for "lows", 210 or, even worse, 410 for "highs", all run full-range), and matched pairs are not even considered, much less auditioned and compared.
agedhorse is right that if the player likes the sound better, then little else matters. You are quite on target, IMO. That is, although players may like the sound better, they may not be aware of how much better they could have done had they been aware of how they could have optimized their arrangements.
I don't think the issues are overstated at all. In fact, I think they are generally understated in practice. I base that on decades of (professional) experience and on my own detailed knowledge of those issues. If people want to play hit-or-miss and ignore the type of information that I've tried to provide, then that's their right. If they end up happy, then even better!
The truth is that many players are not all that discriminating... at least not to the extent that I am.
Of course, how much any of this matters depends very much on one's goals. If one is just looking to pump out high levels of thump, then you can probably get away with all sorts of combinations. On the other hand, if your goal is to amplify the DB with reasonable fidelity, then IMO, the issues matter a great deal.
My only misgiving about sensitivity mismatches is that the more sensitive speaker ends up producing most of the sound and the increase in overall volume may be a wash. I found this to be the case when mixing my GK MB150E combo amp with a DIY 15" extension cab. The system was just as loud with the internal speaker of the combo turned off.
A misgiving which could prove, in slightly different circumstances than yours, to be a costly and heavy mistake.
