MM Stingray weak G

[dkelley]

Try taking a stingray to a band jam session and see how it sits in the mix. It is very different than by itself. I never noticed the issue until I took mine to practice for the first time.

I've recorded with them tons (stingrays I mean), as have many much more important bassists than myself ;-)

no issues there that I can see which would apply to all stingrays.

It IS quite possible that the G doesn't cut as much due to mid scooping the controls (which I believe some stingray players do, specially so on 2 band models by turning everything up too far). And compared to a fender precision which is mid-forward imho in a strong way, the stingray will definitely not cut through in a band setting as well, but then it sounds completely different too overall.

Edit: Stingrays have a smiley-face curve which naturally reduces output of fundamentals and first harmonics on the G string. it's part of their tone. eq is a simple thing - it can't only affect some strings unless of course you have separate pickups for each string.

I believe the mid cut introduced by turning up the bass and treble controls does coincide with the root frequencies of the G string (with a large margin above and below), which is why slapping is so fun on these things.

Try turning the tone controls all the way down and see how it sounds. or, at most put each on about 15% to 20% of the way, so almost off. Not saying to play that way all the time, but to experiment and start with fresh ears like that to see if the same problem exists.

It certainly doesn't with mine - I've checked after reading all this stuff in other threads on TB LoL

 

[u84six]

You know what, that's a great idea. Only the individual strings thing; for example, 50-65-85-100 or something like that? You can even go for something like 50-60-80-105 (because the poles higher on A and D)

Just trying to find a way other than messing with the pickup.

And for the saddles adjustment, I'd recommend visiting ernie ball forum.

Yes, it makes sense that gauge might fix this considering that the E is thicker and louder and the G is the thinnest and softest. I will have to make a custom string set.

 

[dkelley]

If you do go to the EB forum don't mention changing parts. I would also be surprised if even one person believes the weak G exists over there. Seriously, I did not a have a fun experience on that board. Bunch of hardcore fanboys.

LMAO too true

 

[u84six]

2 bands on each just like the classic. which I would have thought would scoop the g more but I've never found that at all. my subs's poplar body wood is the only other important difference between them and a stingray.

Ok, then that rules out the preamp.

 

[zenrad]

I've played two identical 'Rays each set up exactly the same (as in measured to within 1/64") and one had a weak G.

My two EBMM Sterling basses (a 4H and a 4 HS) have no G string issue.

I have an EBMM Big Al 5H with a great G and now a Stingray 5 HH with no G string issues either.

I first noticed it with the identical Stingrays - I exchanged one I bought because someone at GC filed a nut slot too low (no idea why they would have messed with it) and they gave me the exact same model and finish from another store. The new one just never had the same volume and sparkle from the G string no matter what I tried. I returned it.

It's not a design flaw IMO but I think it's a hit or miss thing with these basses.

 

[odineye]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Specs on the website are measured to to pickup cover, so changing the height of the pole pieces won't throw it out of spec of that's really a concern. In the MM's that I've seen with this issue, adjusting the pole pieces is an easy fix has cured it every time.

 

[u84six]

I've recorded with them tons (stingrays I mean), as have many much more important bassists than myself ;-)

no issues there that I can see which would apply to all stingrays.

It IS quite possible that the G doesn't cut as much due to mid scooping the controls (which I believe some stingray players do, specially so on 2 band models by turning everything up too far). And compared to a fender precision which is mid-forward imho in a strong way, the stingray will definitely not cut through in a band setting as well, but then it sounds completely different too overall.

Edit: Stingrays have a smiley-face curve which naturally reduces output of fundamentals and first harmonics on the G string. it's part of their tone. eq is a simple thing - it can't only affect some strings unless of course you have separate pickups for each string.

I believe the mid cut introduced by turning up the bass and treble controls does coincide with the root frequencies of the G string (with a large margin above and below), which is why slapping is so fun on these things.

Try turning the tone controls all the way down and see how it sounds. or, at most put each on about 15% to 20% of the way, so almost off. Not saying to play that way all the time, but to experiment and start with fresh ears like that to see if the same problem exists.

It certainly doesn't with mine - I've checked after reading all this stuff in other threads on TB LoL

I can continue to mess with the controls. But I did have a 4 hour gig with that bass last week and I really feel like I tried every possible position combination (even the really annoying tinny setting that I can't believe anyone would ever play with) and I wasn't able to fix it. I will mess around with it again at tonight's rehearsal. I'm almost convinced it's string to pole distance, and a custom gauge set might get me close to a fix. I feel like not all the poles in these pickups have the same sensitivity from bass to bass.

 

[odineye]

Yes, I've done all the searching and did come across the video where he pushes down on all the poles other than G string. I might have to give this a shot but I was hoping there was an easier solution. Also, how to you raise the saddles on these basses? Are there hex screws in the holes? If so, I can't really see them. I tried a few allen wrenches last night and none of them was able to adjust the height. I'm thinking I can remedy this problem by adjust individual strings in combination with what this guy does in the video:

Oops... somehow missed that you'd seen that already. I still say it's the way to go.

 

[u84six]

If you do go to the EB forum don't mention changing parts. I would also be surprised if even one person believes the weak G exists over there. Seriously, I did not a have a fun experience on that board. Bunch of hardcore fanboys.

I did ask the question over there and I found the community totally useless! lol So thankful for all you guys on TB!

 

[xparis001]

wasnt the 3 band EQ designed to specifically solve this problem?

 

[u84six]

Oops... somehow missed that you'd seen that already. I still say it's the way to go.

Here's how I'll attempt the fix:

- string gauge adjustment (I'll get a heavier gauge G and lighter gauge E)

- Slight tilt of the pickup (after installing new strings)

- Mess with the pickup poles.

I'll let you all know what happens.

 

[odineye]

Here's how I'll attempt the fix:

- string gauge adjustment (I'll get a heavier gauge G and lighter gauge E)

- Slight tilt of the pickup (after installing new strings)

- Mess with the pickup poles.

I'll let you all know what happens.

Of course, to each his own... But before you do that i have to ask. Is the gauge of string you're playing with right now, something you're particularly happy with? If so, are you sure you want to start changing that around?

I've always been in the habit of setting up my guitars to meet my style of playing, and in my mind that setup includes not just neck adjustment, action and intonation... but pick up adjustment as well.

Just a thought.

 

[u84six]

Of course, to each his own... But before you do that i have to ask. Is the gauge of string you're playing with right now, something you're particularly happy with? If so, are you sure you want to start changing that around?

I've always been in the habit of setting up my guitars to meet my style of playing, and in my mind that setup includes not just neck adjustment, action and intonation... but pick up adjustment as well.

Just a thought.

Pickup adjustment is very limited on these basses because there's only one and it's at the bridge. On the other hand, there's 8 poles that I think can be individually adjusted, but it doesn't look very easy to do unless you pull it all apart.

 

[David Jayne]

If you play the bass unplugged in a quiet room is this problem still noticeable?

 

[Pet Sounds]

I have a 'Ray with this problem. Raising the treble side of the pickup helped quite a bit. I have GHS flats on it; don't know if that has anything to do with it.

 

[dkelley]

If you play the bass unplugged in a quiet room is this problem still noticeable?

Interesting question but I'm certain it's preamp and or pickup and or eq and or string magnetic properties related, not acoustic properties related.

 

[dkelley]

I have a 'Ray with this problem. Raising the treble side of the pickup helped quite a bit. I have GHS flats on it; don't know if that has anything to do with it.

You can put flats on a ray? Bizarre....


Just kidding.... I bought my us sub 5 fretless with flats or tapes or some awful things on it. So I'm biased against that on rays.

I like flats on hollow body basses though. Anyhow... As you were

 

[Ric5]

People either have this problem, or they deny they have this problem in my experience. It is like the guys who have Rics that don't neck dive and guys with 34" B strings that don't get overtones as you fret up the neck, they just refuse to accept the truth.

I personally do not think there is a fix for it outside of changing parts.

Here come the flames.

Yes the Stingray does have the weak G problem.

I have owned and played a ton of Ricks and none of them neck dived.

I have no idea what the overtones on a 34" neck thing you are talking about .... ??? Oh well it doesn't matter.

Back to the Stingray ... the weak G string to me is the fact that the bass and low mids drop out leaving treble and high mids ... hence a "weak" tone. The volume is there just not enough fullness. That is why a neck pickup fixes the problem.

This is similar to the problem with the D and G strings on a p-bass ... reversing the p-pickup on that bass helps as does a neck pickup. Many p-bass players deal with that by rolling off most of the treble or by using flats to compensate for the design flaw.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

If you play the bass unplugged in a quiet room is this problem still noticeable?

Nope, it is fine until the mix in my experience.

 

[zortation]

Sterling ball has publicly posted on the subject that it may in fact be due to the preamp design.

This is exactly what it is.

The G isn't weak. The EQ curve of the electronics works on all the strings the same way, it's just very noticeable on the D and G strings.