Thinking about an Ashdown ABM...not sure if the 300 or 600. Now, these amps are supposed to have some "iron" in them. So, let's say I was going for a modest volume at some point. Maybe running the 300 at 50%...which might mean something like 30% for the 600 to have a comparable volume. Would there be a difference in tone...and if so, how much. I'm only familiar with this type of relationship when it comes to guitar amps...bass seem more linear...but...
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Model/Power vs volume vs tone
- Thread starter WarBeer
- Start date
Theoretically and assuming the preanps are identical they should sound identical, until you max out the smaller one.
It's also a bit more complicated.
Often more power is perceived as robustness in the tone, or maybe heft. Speakers used make a big difference. Would you be using the same cab with either or would the larger amp also have more drivers?
Then if they are combo amps; the max output from either would be like 60% anyway without an extension.
There is also no way of knowing for certain how much power is being used at any particular moment. Higher notes played light vs. lower notes while you're digging in. Rolling off the tone knob on the bass for this one passage. Bass boost for this song. Etc etc power output is dynamic.
Often more power is perceived as robustness in the tone, or maybe heft. Speakers used make a big difference. Would you be using the same cab with either or would the larger amp also have more drivers?
Then if they are combo amps; the max output from either would be like 60% anyway without an extension.
There is also no way of knowing for certain how much power is being used at any particular moment. Higher notes played light vs. lower notes while you're digging in. Rolling off the tone knob on the bass for this one passage. Bass boost for this song. Etc etc power output is dynamic.
Grow into. Buy once cry once.
That will be your call for sure based on needs. But remember a couple things that seem to be subjective/flexible guidelines.
1. Displacement limited output of drivers (while you are playing at volume with a real-world bass guitar signal) is very likely to be far lower than max power electrically... = watts tell you only a part about a speaker cab's output.
2. A doubling of power through the same speaker can have a couple affects on the performance of the rig. It can provide a noticeable uptick in percieved volume but not double. It can not change the drivers capabilities, and may cause compression resulting in no net gain in perceived volume.
3. Remember impedance. Those output numbers are probably running into 4 ohm loads, not 8 ohm or as a stand-alone combo.
Happy hunting
1. Displacement limited output of drivers (while you are playing at volume with a real-world bass guitar signal) is very likely to be far lower than max power electrically... = watts tell you only a part about a speaker cab's output.
2. A doubling of power through the same speaker can have a couple affects on the performance of the rig. It can provide a noticeable uptick in percieved volume but not double. It can not change the drivers capabilities, and may cause compression resulting in no net gain in perceived volume.
3. Remember impedance. Those output numbers are probably running into 4 ohm loads, not 8 ohm or as a stand-alone combo.
Happy hunting
Assess what is in your budget, how big a cab you want to transport, and whether a single cabinet is sufficient for the majority of your needs. Stick with 8 ohms cabinets so that you have the option to add another down the road: the ABMs won't support loads less than 4 ohms.
Been torn between getting something modest like an Avatar 1x12 or 2x12...
...or something like a BBC 1212.
Running either a 300w head @ 4 ohms...or...possibly a 500-600w head...@ 4 ohms.
I don't need 500-600...it was really a matter of tone and what head I end up with. (since my combo amp took a dump...and I'm ready for a better rig...one that's a bit better made than the Rumble 200 that just dumped on me
Besides losing some power...is there any disadvantage or tone-effect between going into one 4ohm cab...vs one 8ohm?
...or something like a BBC 1212.
Running either a 300w head @ 4 ohms...or...possibly a 500-600w head...@ 4 ohms.
I don't need 500-600...it was really a matter of tone and what head I end up with. (since my combo amp took a dump...and I'm ready for a better rig...one that's a bit better made than the Rumble 200 that just dumped on me
Besides losing some power...is there any disadvantage or tone-effect between going into one 4ohm cab...vs one 8ohm?
The difference between the ABM 300 and 600 is the output amp section. They'll sound more similar than different.Been torn between getting something modest like an Avatar 1x12 or 2x12...
...or something like a BBC 1212.
Running either a 300w head @ 4 ohms...or...possibly a 500-600w head...@ 4 ohms.
I don't need 500-600...it was really a matter of tone and what head I end up with. (since my combo amp took a dump...and I'm ready for a better rig...one that's a bit better made than the Rumble 200 that just dumped on me
You can always turn a 600 watt amp down.
There is only so far you can turn a 300 watt amp up.
This ^
An audition last year found me falling short with my GB 3.0 10+10. And I "kickstand" the upper 10, dont go bass heavy etc.
No affiliation with seller . I'm not even a m.b. fan. Good price here. Plenty of rig, and modular.
For Sale - Markbass CMD 121p & NY 121
For Sale - Markbass CMD 121p & NY 121
Part of the trick on getting a cab that will handle both ranges of power is "how sensitive is the cab". How much power does it take to bring it to gig volume? The more sensitive the cab is, the less power it takes. HOWEVER, very often, but not always, the higher the power handling the cab has, the less sensitive the cab is.
Eden for example makes both XLT and XST cabs. The XLT cabs have a built-in low mid hump that makes them sound really good in a mix, but they don't handle as much power as the XST cabs and they don't go as low in their frequency response as the XST. The XST cabs have a very flat frequency response and also have a lower and tighter bottom end. They handle considerably more power than the XLT's do, but they are not as sensitive - not a huge difference in sensitivity actually, but nonetheless a difference.
And NOW, just to muddle your brain a bit more, there is no real standard of how to measure sensitivity. SPL ratings are typically done with an SPL (Sound Pressure Level) rating measured @1W1M (1-watt, 1-meter). That sounds pretty straightforward until you ask, "wait a minute, what frequency are they using to check that?" The frequency or frequencies used to check that SPL are very rarely quoted. From what I can ascertain, 1KHz is pretty commonly used. But what about the other frequencies? I don't only play 1KHz sounds?
About the only manufacturer I know of that tests and publishes SPL at different frequencies, plus an average of those frequencies, is Mesa and that's thanks to @agedhorse. So when you see an SPL rating on his cabs, you can believe it. You'll often see higher SPL ratings on other brands that are actually not as sensitive in "real world" conditions. I'm an Endorsing Artist for DNA products and even when David owned Eden he didn't like the pick one frequency and issue an SPL, but he felt he had to do that because his competitors were. He also didn't feel it was a good metric to use. But you know, if you can't demo the cab yourself, how will know what it can do?
So now with his DNA speaker cabs, David publishes their power handling along with the max SPL instead of a sensitivity rating, feeling that is probably a more relevant metric. Until manufacturers start using real world multiple frequency SPL tests like Mesa does, this seems pretty good to me. And of course I have a couple of DNA cabs and I can just say, they are very sensitive taking very little power to play at giggable levels. But I've gigged with them a lot and I know from experience how they sound and what they can do.
So perhaps a better question would be what cab will handle my 600-watt amp when I need it and still be driven to giggable levels for smaller venues with my 300-watt amp. If you have experience with a certain brand of cabs, then you can look at their power handling and their published SPL rating and be fairly confident you understand what's happening. Presuming they don't change their SPL testing parameters from cab to cab, basing what you know of a cab you already have, you can get a good idea and make a decision from there. Still nothing beats trying out the cab with both your amps before you buy it.
It's not a problem to use a lower powered amp in speakers that can handle twice of what that amp can do. The problem you might run into is using the 300-watt amp in a venue when you should be using your 600-watt amp and you run the master so high or run so much boost in the EQ section of your 300-watt amp that you cause the power section to clip. If the power section is clipping very much, besides sounding crappy, that will (should) trigger your protection circuits and it will turn everything off inside (lights are on but nobody is home). So, make smart choices on which amp to use where.
One other thing really quick. If your choice is the 300-watt or the 600-watt, get the 600-watt. It is ALWAYS better to have more than you need than not enough, presuming your cabs will handle it. Very few things that are worse than having your bandmates ask you to turn up and you're already maxed out your amp - been there, done that, don't recommend it.
With only 300-watts, that will happen to you at one point or another - usually sooner than later. With 600-watts, probably not. I have an 800-watt amp and I don't use anywhere near that amount of power. I have it if I need it, but I'd need to be a long way away from my amp and cabs when I did.
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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Yes, Headroom. Yes to only have to pay for it once.
But most of all, Better too loud than not loud enough. It'll be quiet when you're dead.
And on a lesser note, speakers and cabinet construction and room acoustics would all affect the way you perceive the tone in addition to the amp settings and power.
But most of all, Better too loud than not loud enough. It'll be quiet when you're dead.
And on a lesser note, speakers and cabinet construction and room acoustics would all affect the way you perceive the tone in addition to the amp settings and power.
I appreciate all the knowledge. (Rip Van Dan...thank you for the detailed and useful insight!)
