Modeler into a Fender Rumble 100 combo or into a powered PA speaker?

[John D Harris]

Yep.

I have a Two Notes Opus and deciding whether to run it into a Rumble 100c (about $330) or something like either the Yamaha DBR12 ($450) or EV ZLX-12P G2 ($550) powered PA speaker.

I play a 5-string BEADG bass guitar.

The plus for the R100c is less expensive buy in and if I get in a situation where I need more volume and don't have decent PA support, I could buy another R100c and stack them, plus they are only 22 lbs a piece.

I suspect, but not certain that either one of those two PA cabs might be a bit louder than one R100c.

 

[Bodeeni]

Those powered PA cabs can be very loud and clean. Louder than the Rumble and a lot less colored. I would definitely go try them out. I would also put the Mackie Thump 15 on the list. You can also plug straight in to many for a studio sounding flat signal.

 

[ardgedee]

When you use a modeler into a bass amp, you are stacking amp colors on top of each other.

The result might sound good to you. Or maybe not. The best way to find out is to try. What you won't be able to get is something that sounds exactly like, say, an Ampeg SVT -- the modeler's SVT tone, no matter how good it is, is going to be filtered through the Rumble's tone.

 

[Redbrangus]

I'm with @ardgedee -- an amp is going to lend too much of its own coloration to the modeled signal. Full-range, powered PA cabs, generally speaking, are going to come closer to sounding like what that signal is. I'd consider the 15-inch version of the Yamaha you mentioned -- it's gotten a number of favorable mentions in these pages.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

I am one of those favorable reporters, using a olde tube mixer - mixer channel - Yamaha DXR15. It stands up to my V4B - 115 rig volume wise and definitely goes a bit lower. Top end is not obnoxious unless I make it so. The Yamaha has pretty nice processing built in, no ugly limiting artifacts.

Does have a fan, not quiet. I also have a Thump and it is much looser sounding but ok when not directly compared...

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

I get most of my tone from my Zoom B1X, no matter what else comes after (headphones, amps, monitors, PA). Yes, amps and cabs can color the tone, but that's what tone controls are for.

This my setup...Ibanez SR206 > Zoom B1X > Xenyx 4 channel mixer > Fender Rumble 100 (or two of them).

 

[DonaldR]

I'm using an EV ZLX12P for several years and it sounds good. I would personally get a PA speaker with builtin DSP to handle your bass sound without farting. My 5-string is going strong and pretty loud. I was surprised.

Have a listen before you buy, the EV ZLX12P sounds way better than the Yamaha DBR12 and the Mackie Thump IMHO. If you have the money have a listen at the Yamaha DXR12. Maybe get a small subwoofer instead of a 15" cab.

If it's for home use, you can go with a smaller 8" top and a small 12" sub. Can also be used for jams with friends, karaoke, pool party, etc.

 

[John D Harris]

I should have mentioned that I'm wanting to keep the weight as far below 40 lbs. as is practical and the cost as low as practical (yet still good quality).

Relooking at everything in the light of everyone's input, I believe the EV ZLX15P has moved to the top of my current, prospective list.

 

[John D Harris]

I get most of my tone from my Zoom B1X, no matter what else comes after (headphones, amps, monitors, PA). Yes, amps and cabs can color the tone, but that's what tone controls are for.

This my setup...Ibanez SR206 > Zoom B1X > Xenyx 4 channel mixer > Fender Rumble 100 (or two of them).

When the weather here warms up a bit, I can go to a semi-local MI store and run my Cort B5 and my Opus into an R100c to check out how much coloring is going on.

I know they carry PA stuff, but I've never looked at what they have on hand.

 

[John D Harris]

I'm using an EV ZLX12P for several years and it sounds good. I would personally get a PA speaker with builtin DSP to handle your bass sound without farting. My 5-string is going strong and pretty loud. I was surprised.

Have a listen before you buy, the EV ZLX12P sounds way better than the Yamaha DBR12 and the Mackie Thump IMHO. If you have the money have a listen at the Yamaha DXR12. Maybe get a small subwoofer instead of a 15" cab.

If it's for home use, you can go with a smaller 8" top and a small 12" sub. Can also be used for jams with friends, karaoke, pool party, etc.

Thanks for the EV recommendation!
I'll see what the semi-local store has - kind of looking at the EV ZLX15P now!

The DXR12 is 41 lbs. a bit above what I'm hoping for.

No subs.

Portability and ease of transport / setup is a prime constraint.

 

[John D Harris]

Another option that I didn't think of is the Markbass MB58R CMD 102 Pure combo - it's a bit more expensive, but from what I've heard, it is 'fairly' transparent or transparent enough to work for what I'm looking for - not necessarily an exact reproduction of any specific amp, but "in the neighborhood of" type of sound (and it's only 30 lbs).

[~ a bit OT... ~]
I think I can come up with three main presets that mimic:
1. a Super Bassman;
2. a cross between SVT and B-15, and
3. a Mesa M9 type tone;

- with those three, I think they would cover any music I want to attempt.

 

[John D Harris]

I get most of my tone from my Zoom B1X, no matter what else comes after (headphones, amps, monitors, PA). Yes, amps and cabs can color the tone, but that's what tone controls are for.

This my setup...Ibanez SR206 > Zoom B1X > Xenyx 4 channel mixer > Fender Rumble 100 (or two of them).

I'd like for my DI out and my stage sound to be 'reasonably' close to each other. I will check them out for sure.

 

[John D Harris]

When you use a modeler into a bass amp, you are stacking amp colors on top of each other.

The result might sound good to you. Or maybe not. The best way to find out is to try. What you won't be able to get is something that sounds exactly like, say, an Ampeg SVT -- the modeler's SVT tone, no matter how good it is, is going to be filtered through the Rumble's tone.

I'm with @ardgedee -- an amp is going to lend too much of its own coloration to the modeled signal. Full-range, powered PA cabs, generally speaking, are going to come closer to sounding like what that signal is. I'd consider the 15-inch version of the Yamaha you mentioned -- it's gotten a number of favorable mentions in these pages.

I will try the Opus into the Rumble's FX Return jack and see how colored it is - I would think most of the added color running it that way will be from the 12" driver.

 

[pfschim]

I was going to suggest the FX return and see how that goes. You'll just be getting the amps power section, which should be pretty neutral, and the cab sound. Some amp circuits do include some driver processing into the power section via the FX return (example of that would be the Mesa Walkabout). But the cab should also relatively neutral compared to other cabs (but maybe not PA tops). I have found PA tops (QSC, EV, Yamaha) to be very dry sounding for bass (which is not a surprise as that's their intended role). Some of them with DSP settings for bass (like QSC) may help a bit too.

I wanted very much to be able to use a QSC K10.2 for a small live rig, but could never get it to sound like a bass amp to my ears. It definitely made noise, just not the kind I wanted.

good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

 

[bucephylus]

I was going to suggest the FX return and see how that goes. You'll just be getting the amps power section, which should be pretty neutral, and the cab sound. Some amp circuits do include some driver processing into the power section via the FX return (example of that would be the Mesa Walkabout). But the cab should also relatively neutral compared to other cabs (but maybe not PA tops). I have found PA tops (QSC, EV, Yamaha) to be very dry sounding for bass (which is not a surprise as that's their intended roll). Some of them with DSP settings for bass (like QSC) may help a bit too.

I wanted very much to be able to use a QSC K10.2 for a small live rig, but could never get it to sound like a bass amp to my ears. It definitely made noise, just not the kind I wanted.

good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

+1

I still have a K10.2, which sees periodic vocal monitor use. It works ok as a powered bass cab; but, has a pretty unimpressive strength to weight ratio.

OTOH, my GK Legacy 112 combo is both lighter and much more potent, and works extremely well as a powered bass cab, if desired. FWIW. I mainly just use the combo preamp for simplicity.

 

[John D Harris]

I was going to suggest the FX return and see how that goes. You'll just be getting the amps power section, which should be pretty neutral, and the cab sound. Some amp circuits do include some driver processing into the power section via the FX return (example of that would be the Mesa Walkabout). But the cab should also relatively neutral compared to other cabs (but maybe not PA tops). I have found PA tops (QSC, EV, Yamaha) to be very dry sounding for bass (which is not a surprise as that's their intended roll). Some of them with DSP settings for bass (like QSC) may help a bit too.

I wanted very much to be able to use a QSC K10.2 for a small live rig, but could never get it to sound like a bass amp to my ears. It definitely made noise, just not the kind I wanted.

good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

Hopefully, regardless of the final sound reproduction element, the Opus will provide the appropriate bass flavor (I know, highly subjective) given its preamp / power amp / cab sim modeling - each part of the chain is optional and have a different path for the DI out than for the line out.

Most of the time, I prefer the sound in my headphones without cab sims present, but I've come up with a few with them that do sound great!

 

[John D Harris]

+1

I still have a K10.2, which sees periodic vocal monitor use. It works ok as a powered bass cab; but, has a pretty unimpressive strength to weight ratio.

OTOH, my GK Legacy 112 combo is both lighter and much more potent, and works extremely well as a powered bass cab, if desired. FWIW. I mainly just use the combo preamp for simplicity.

I'm very impressed by the Legacy 112, when using as a powered bass cab, do you run 'whatever' front end into the L112 FX Return?

 

[bucephylus]

I'm very impressed by the Legacy 112, when using as a powered bass cab, do you run 'whatever' front end into the L112 FX Return?

Precisely. That was part of the design.

 

[DonaldR]

Thanks for the EV recommendation!
I'll see what the semi-local store has - kind of looking at the EV ZLX15P now!

The DXR12 is 41 lbs. a bit above what I'm hoping for.

No subs.

Portability and ease of transport / setup is a prime constraint.

Have a look at a used EV ZLX12P. I use it without a sub for 1-2 years and it was louder than a Tech21 Power Engine Deuce. I wouldn't go personally with a ZLX15 as I usually don't like vocals and other instruments into a 15" speaker (I'm using my PA cab often as a monitor and with builtin HPF at 80Hz or 100Hz).

 

[John D Harris]

Have a look at a used EV ZLX12P. I use it without a sub for 1-2 years and it was louder than a Tech21 Power Engine Deuce. I wouldn't go personally with a ZLX15 as I usually don't like vocals and other instruments into a 15" speaker (I'm using my PA cab often as a monitor and with builtin HPF at 80Hz or 100Hz).

Thanks!

So even if I only used the cab for bass, you don't recommend the 15" version - I was just thinking it would move more air down low since they both have the same power.

Ideally, I'd prefer a 3-way cab with the 15" PA cab, but weight makes them impractical.