Modern Jazz is No Fun

[Nashrakh]

Why does it have to be fun?
Why is THAT the most important factor?

Reminds me of a discussion about Godzilla movies. Knew someone who said Godzilla movies had to be fun or else they'd be worthless. But what about the more serious entries? No guys in rubber suits smashing each other into miniature buildings = aesthetically worthless?

Basically the same train of thought here. There's more to music and arts than plain old entertainment.

 

[bluesblaster]

That was Chuck Berry; Lennon was just reiterating.

Your right, I stand corrected

 

[knight of ni]

If it's my gig, obviously I would like people to like what I do, but I play for myself and the other musicians.

Well, in theory artists should perform as they intend to and audience respond and be entertained, that is taken hold of (or not). In practice, money and fame pervert the concept and brings the temptation or necessity of pleasing the audience by playing what they'd like to hear rather than what you'd like to play. I don't mind the entertainment business but I certainly wouldn't go to a concert where musicians are trying to please me rather than play their music (which is why I found cover bands so depressing, unless you make the music yours but it's generally not the case).

 

[Mark Ambler]

Well, in theory artists should perform as they intend to and audience respond and be entertained, that is taken hold of (or not). In practice, money and fame pervert the concept and brings the temptation or necessity of pleasing the audience by playing what they'd like to hear rather than what you'd like to play. I don't mind the entertainment business but I certainly wouldn't go to a concert where musicians are trying to please me rather than play their music (which is why I found cover bands so depressing, unless you make the music yours but it's generally not the case).

Yes. Sophisticated music is a niche market. In my experience, the higher paid gigs have been less enjoyable than the poorer paid ones. Guess that’s why I’m having so much ‘fun’ at the moment

 

[Wasnex]

Somebody once wrote "Jazz is the sound of surprise" and going to a bar to hear a quintet of two horns, bass drums and piano play head-solos-head on a string of tunes either introduced between 1940-1960, or newly written to sound like they date from 1940-1960, isn't a recipe for being surprised.

I think you make a good point. But sometimes jazz can still be surprising, especially if it is done really well. I remember one particular evening sometime in the 90s when I walked into a bar in Brussels with some friends, and there was a band playing a bunch of Ornette Coleman arrangements. I am not generally that much of a fan of jazz, but it was just so well done and the harmonies seemed so fresh and interesting that we all agreed to stay and listen till they had finished.

There was also a very modern jazz ensemble in San Antonio before I left in 2010 that played a lot of original compositions with polyrhythms and odd time signatures that I simply found fascinating. They played so fluidly that a layman would never suspect anything odd about the time, other than it was infectious.

I think the problem is typically you have a rhythm section playing the same old changes and a couple of horns blowing solos, and there really is not a lot of composition or structure. After a few minutes it all starts to sound the same unless you have really phenomenal players.

I remember walking around at a music festival I was playing at. A jazz combo opened up with a medium swing tune at the first stage. We listened for a few minutes, got bored, and walked down the street to see the other stages. We got back about 40 minutes later and the band was playing another medium swing tune. Of course the chords were different, but the tone, texture, and rhythms sounded exactly the same as they did previously.

This is a problem even with highly skilled musicians to some degree. You have to be very sophisticated as a listener to pickup on the nuances, which often amount to note choices in the solo, because so much of the "sound" of the music remains constant from tune to tune.

I think it's a lot more interesting if you have more than one horn and they play in harmony together and the brass instruments use mutes to change the color of their tone. But as players, the focus is often on how athletic and technical you can play, so the audience may not get a lot of lyrical content to draw them in. To the untrained ear, an incredible solo can sound like a bunch of random notes. In other words, it sounds like noise.

 

[twinjet]

As the parent of a toddler, i assure you they do. Although I don’t need 10 Jazz versions of “let it go” or that Moana song.

I bought the Moana soundtrack about a year back and have lived to regret it. Every... single... day.

 

[zubrycky]

Over the years, I abandoned labels as "fun" and "boring" for musical purposes. First, to me, as a musician, all music genres have something to offer and are opportunities to learn something. Second, again to me, there's no such thing as boring music, just music that doesn't ressonate to me emotionally at a first glance.

 

[StatesideRambler]

How about “satisfying” instead of “fun?” Lighthearted can be satisfying as can melancholy or earnest. I occasionally play in a pit orchestra for community theater and, while I often dislike the music we play, performing with actors and for audiences is satisfying.

 

[jerry]

My credit card statement tells me there is plenty of new good stuff in all the genres I dig.

 

[The Owl]

This thread needs a good YOKO V SAX video

That'll bust up a party faster than a skunk in an air conditioner.

 

[Wasnex]

Well, in theory artists should perform as they intend to and audience respond and be entertained, that is taken hold of (or not). In practice, money and fame pervert the concept and brings the temptation or necessity of pleasing the audience by playing what they'd like to hear rather than what you'd like to play. I don't mind the entertainment business but I certainly wouldn't go to a concert where musicians are trying to please me rather than play their music (which is why I found cover bands so depressing, unless you make the music yours but it's generally not the case).

Perhaps the problem is too many musicians aspire to be artists, when they are only equipped to be crafts people. An artists is free to create something new, but there is no guarantee anyone will be willing to pay for one's creations. Unfortunately all too many musicians seem to think they should be compensated for doing what they want to do, rather than giving the audience something they like. If one wants to play for their own edification, an audience is not required, so one is totally free to do whatever they want. But, if you expect to get paid to perform, you better provide something of value to the audience or you won't get much repeat business.

A true craft person understands the need to provide the customer with something of value. There is nothing wrong with doing an honest days work, so I have no problem with people playing in cover bands as long as they endeavor to satisfy their audience's needs. There is a certain artistry, involved in musical craft work that I find satisfying. I usually try to honor and capture the original artist's intent, but I make the bass part my own.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Bill Evans died almost 40 years ago, the Modern Jazz Quartet folded over 20 years ago. They were modern in their day, but to call them modern now would imply that there's been no change or progress in jazz for over a generation.

So with that logic, anything that isn’t written in the last few years isn’t modern, no matter how harmonically advanced it was. So I guess Keith Jarret and Ritchie Bierach aren’t ‘modern’ also? Is there a sell by date?

 

[knight of ni]

It reminds me of contemporary classical music dating back to early 20th century.

 

[Wasnex]

So with that logic, anything that isn’t written in the last few years isn’t modern, no matter how harmonically advanced it was. So I guess Keith Jarret and Ritchie Bierach aren’t ‘modern’ also? Is there a sell by date?

It reminds me of contemporary classical music dating back to early 20th century.

I suppose its only in artistic circles that compound terms such as "post modern" and "post contemporary" make sense .

 

[pedroims]

Do you think that the writing and practice part was fun?

Absolutely, seems that they love what they do, certainly there is stress and boriness along the way but I don't see why musicians cannot have fun during the writing and recording process.

 

[pedroims]

Hmm if you take away the big band and the solos by experienced people, I'm not sold on what's left

Thanks, never heard of them before. I checked them out. Like them alot, added them to my playlist. Wife and my teenager kids think they are weird

 

[jthisdell]

Wife and my teenager kids think they are weird

That's a good sign.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Sure it is.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Based on what?
Still combing through your posts...and I see nothing indicating that you even listen to or play Jazz.

Why so hostile? Am I not allowed to have an opinion. I don't play any kind of music I don't like. In my musical life I have played classical, big band, dixieland, country, P&W, rock, and blues. At least two of those are considered jazz. You must be one of these jazz elitists who thinks you aren't a real musician unless you play jazz.
Suffer on, brother.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Ok.
Maybe it is.
Maybe.
But only after you've done all the work to get there.

Some music forms start out with full intent to be fun.
And for all listening to have fun.
Rock.Punk.Dance music.

But that is not the intent if most Jazz musicians.
No one goes to Julliard or Berkley Music Academy with the primary intent of having fun.
The stage presence of jazz musicians in general is not one that says "Let's all get goofy and have a party"

Yep, as I though. I don't know that I've ever played with a Jullian grad, but all the Berkley grads I've played with have awesome technique, but the soul has been beat out of them. And I will agree that jazz is not party music unless it is that brackground stuff at Sunday brunch, but isn't the point of any music to convey a good feeling to the audience and how is that not fun it itself?