Modes - Application

[KenD]

I know what the modes are and I play variations of them frequently in my practice routine - e.g. arpeggios and scales from the diatonic notes of a major scale. What I don't have a clear understanding of is why they are applied or are useful.

For example, if I have a chord chart for a piece of music written in the key of C and I come to a measure marked with the chord Fmaj7, I already know the chord tones (F A C E) and I know the notes of the C scale. What would knowing the applicable mode add?

 

[dreamadream99]

First, let me say that I think that modes are way overrated, and way too much emphasis is aimed at beginner students. But there are two very important ways that modes can be helpful:

1. Being able to play in your home scale/key starting from any of its component notes, is invaluable.
2. Playing in various parallel modes is a safe way to introduce chromatics to your soloing.

 

[KenD]

First, let me say that I think that modes are way overrated, and way too much emphasis is aimed at beginner students. But there are two very important ways that modes can be helpful:

1. Being able to play in your home scale/key starting from any of its component notes, is invaluable.
2. Playing in various parallel modes is a safe way to introduce chromatics to your soloing.

I understand your points but let me follow up:

1. Agreed but if I know the notes in my home scale/key and I know fluently all the note positions on my fingerboard, why would I need even to know what a mode is?
2. Yes but doesn't the use of approach and passing notes accomplish much of this without knowing about modes?

Not trying to be argumentative, just curious and asking.

 

[Malcolm35]

Parallel modes made more sense to me than relative modes. Relative modes the notes remain the same and you start a new mode with a different new tonic note (key). In Parallel the notes change and the "key" does not change.

C major scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7.
Parallel C Lydian = R-2-3-#4-5-6-7.
Parallel C Mixolydian = R-2-3-4-5-6-b7.

Guitar guys get off using modes for their solo. I saw no need for modes in tonal bass chord music. I'm beginning to see how they do/can add value -- used correctly -- long story. You gotta see the need then fill it with the signature note needed. No not X mode over Y chord. It's much more than that. But modal notes can work with tonal chord progressions.

 

[FatStringer52]

Think about the notes of each mode and what makes them unique. For instance, in your example, you're in the key of C and you come to a measure of FMaj7. So the 4th degree of C is Lydian. What makes that set of notes unique? It's the #4. A musician playing modal music is going to use that #4 as flavor to the chord so to speak. And that #4 is going to create some tension and resolve to the 5.

What makes Dorian unique? The Maj6.

What makes Locrian unique? The b2.

This is a very simplistic answer, but it should help with a better understanding of modes.

 

[KenD]

Think about the notes of each mode and what makes them unique. For instance, in your example, you're in the key of C and you come to a measure of FMaj7. So the 4th degree of C is Lydian. What makes that set of notes unique? It's the #4. A musician playing modal music is going to use that #4 as flavor to the chord so to speak. And that #4 is going to create some tension and resolve to the 5.

What makes Dorian unique? The Maj6.

What makes Locrian unique? The b2.

This is a very simplistic answer, but it should help with a better understanding of modes.

I understand what you have said but I could very well use the #4 as an approach note to the 5 without ever having heard of the modes. In fact, I use ascending or descending approach notes quite often without ever being conscious of applying a mode. In this example what did knowing that it is Lydian mode contribute?

 

[g-dude]

If you want to evoke a particular emotion, it helps to know which mode will best evoke that emotion.

So perhaps less useful if you are just playing someone else’s music, but if you are creating your own, it’s a different story.

 

[FatStringer52]

what did knowing that it is Lydian mode contribute?

The application of theory and modal music.

 

[KenD]

If you want to evoke a particular emotion, it helps to know which mode will best evoke that emotion.

So perhaps less useful if you are just playing someone else’s music, but if you are creating your own, it’s a different story.

I think my point is being missed here. I already have all that tonal information without ever knowing about modes. I know what major, minor, maj7, dom7, diminished, augmented, flat 5, etc. sound like. I know my scales and chords. It seems that modes give me the same information, just in a different format.

 

[Malcolm35]

Lot of truth in what you say. We are at post number ten. Normally goes to a hundred posts before we beat this modal story to death.

Short answer you can play a lot of bass and not ever think about modes. But, always a but, they are there if you want to use them -- and they add value. First thing to understand, is the difference in tonal and modal music. Then use what ever accomplishes what you are needing.

Tonal resolves modal does not resolve, it drone on so the modal mood has time to develop. Can you use modal notes with a resolving chord progression? Yes as passing, or signature notes, but the modal mood (signature modal sound) will not cut through the V-I resolution. Tonal takes over.

 

[CallMeAl]

To me, it’s all about what feeling, flavor, sound you want to evoke. And also, what the melody & progression are doing. I never really think about modes, just scale degrees, and how “blue” I wanna make it (dictated by what fits the song).

In the example, C to FM7, you could play the mode (B natural) or play to the chord progression (B flat). The Bb could be a nice juicy blue note, or it could be out of place.

I go down this list to make things increasingly blue
b7 for major blues
b7, b3 for funky soul & blues
b7, b3, b6 for natural minor songs
b7, b3, b6, b2 for Latin, metal
b7, b3, b6, b2, b5 diminished (only as part of a progression).

So you can see what modes I’m referring to, but I really only think in scale degrees. That’s how I look at it, anyways.

 

[KenD]

To me, it’s all about what feeling, flavor, sound you want to evoke. And also, what the melody & progression are doing. I never really think about modes, just scale degrees, and how “blue” I wanna make it (dictated by what fits the song).

In the example, C to FM7, you could play the mode (B natural) or play to the chord progression (B flat). The Bb could be a nice juicy blue note, or it could be out of place.

I go down this list to make things increasingly blue
b7 for major blues
b7, b3 for funky soul & blues
b7, b3, b6 for natural minor songs
b7, b3, b6, b2 for Latin, metal
b7, b3, b6, b2, b5 diminished (only as part of a progression).

So you can see what modes I’m referring to, but I really only think in scale degrees. That’s how I look at it, anyways.

This accords much more with the way I come at it - scale degrees and chord tones.

 

[mambo4]

I know what major, minor, maj7, dom7, diminished, augmented, flat 5, etc. sound like. I know my scales and chords. It seems that modes give me the same information, just in a different format.

correct.

there is no secret modal hack to add to your playing. Modes are scales like any other. There is nothing particularly unique about how they get used vs any other scales. Except perhaps the fact that the notes will all be diatonic to the key. The practical application is to practice them until you know what they sound like,incorporate the sound into your musical vocabulary, and play them when your ears tell you that’s the sound you want.

 

[KenD]

correct.

there is no secret modal hack to add to your playing. Modes are scales like any other. There is nothing particularly unique about how they get used vs any other scales. Except perhaps the fact that the notes will all be diatonic to the key. The practical application is to practice them until you know what they sound like,incorporate the sound into your musical vocabulary, and play them when your ears tell you that’s the sound you want.

Thank you for this. I can stop questioning my musical density now

 

[MVE]

Modes are primarily useful a “melodic” device. Meaning, they are applicable to playing melodies.

Typically, the basslines are “harmonic” in nature, where we outline the chords being played under the melody.

But to answer your question about the “notes” being the same, just try playing different modes over a common chord.
Like play a CM7 on a piano, and then play a C Major scale. Now play a CM7 and play an A minor scale. - It sounds totally different.
Same notes, but it sounds and feels completely different.
Modes….. coooooool.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I understand what you have said but I could very well use the #4 as an approach note to the 5 without ever having heard of the modes. In fact, I use ascending or descending approach notes quite often without ever being conscious of applying a mode. In this example what did knowing that it is Lydian mode contribute?

Music theroy sometimes is just learning nomenclature for what you already inherently know, which gives you the ability to precisely and efficiently communicate about musical functions and concepts. I’ll lay a wager most use modes more that one would think.

 

[g-dude]

I think my point is being missed here. I already have all that tonal information without ever knowing about modes. I know what major, minor, maj7, dom7, diminished, augmented, flat 5, etc. sound like. I know my scales and chords. It seems that modes give me the same information, just in a different format.

But what you’re missing is that if you want certain moods for music, you use different modes to achieve it.

For example, in movies when they want to make something heroic, they’ll use a different mode than when they want to make something sad or scary.

Major and minor keys don’t give you the full emotional range of composing in a different mode.

 

[KenD]

But what you’re missing is that if you want certain moods for music, you use different modes to achieve it.

For example, in movies when they want to make something heroic, they’ll use a different mode than when they want to make something sad or scary.

Major and minor keys don’t give you the full emotional range of composing in a different mode.

I can see how thinking in terms of modes could be useful for someone composing melodies.

 

[adube810]

each mode has a different overall type of melodic vibe . theyre very useful for group improvisation and can create dramatic shifts and tension/release

 

[MVE]

I can see how thinking in terms of modes could be useful for someone composing melodies.

Try playing a simple melody like Twinkle Twinkle with the same intervals but just different modes. So instead of ccggaagffeeddc, play aaeeffeddccbba, and so on.