Modified SBMM Ray4 vs SBMM Ray34 (Ash)

[Eric Huber]

Agreed, Never mod for resale. Mod for your sound taste. Well said.

 

[Axious]

Mod to own, don't mod to sell. You'll get very little of your investment back, possibly making the instrument worth even less than in the original condition. If you can do the work yourself it's a better deal, but if you need to take it to a repair shop to have them install the pickups and electronics, it's basically costs the same to install electronics in a $300 bass as it costs to install in a $4000 bass. Point being that you can quickly make a $300 instrument into a $800 investment with a $250 resale value. Not saying that you shouldn't mod, just have eyes open before the adventure begins.

I definitely plan to own either instrument for a while. I'm not trying to make profit. Really it comes down to either buying a nicer bass up front, or making a cheaper bass into something better.

 

[maxschrek]

From what I've heard, I'm definitely liking the sound of the Aguilar pickups. Nord strand and SD also sound pretty good, but it's hard to find comparisons.

The Nordstrands are really great too but just a little mellow for my taste, certainly tamer than a stock pre EB pickup. The SD sounds completely different to me.
I've used the Nordstrand and John East preamps and they're both excellent but, imo, the Mojotone edges them out of the top spot for the '70s MM sound. It's cheaper than the other two as well.

 

[Axious]

The Nordstrands are really great too but just a little mellow for my taste, certainly tamer than a stock pre EB pickup. The SD sounds completely different to me.
I've used the Nordstrand and John East preamps and they're both excellent but, imo, the Mojotone edges them out of the top spot for the '70s MM sound. It's cheaper than the other two as well.

I definitely a fan of a more aggressive tone so thanks for the input. Unfortunately Aguilar pickups are out of stock everywhere I checked. So if I were to get a new a pickup soon, I'm not sure what to pick.

 

[skycruiser]

Hey there everyone. This is my first time posting on here. I'm just looking to get some opinions on what's stated in the title.
I recently purchased a Sterling S.U.B. Ray4, but I'm considering returning it and saving up to get a Ray34.
What I wanted to know if it's worth just keeping the Ray4 and getting and a new pickup and pre-amp to put into it. I like the playability of the instrument, and the build quality isn't too bad either.
On the other hand, the ray34, from what I've heard, is very close to an EBMM, but for like half the price. I planned on just buying a used one for about 700$ after I get a performance stipend (poor college student.)
My local(ish) guitar center has one, so sometime soon I'll go try it out. But if anyone out there has any opinions on the matter, please respond!

Do you have an older sub with the large "SUB" on the headstock or the newer one with the smaller mark?

Older one:

Newer one:

I'm far from being an expert on this subject (and in fact have very little experience), but I went through a SUB experience recently and had a lot of issues with the sound. My understanding is that the preamp in the older version (the one I had) was not all that well designed and could be fairly easily over driven and distorts at even fairly low input levels. If that's the one you have, a preamp swap may be more strongly recommended if you plan to stick with the bass for the long term. I had the older bass with the large "SUB" label, swapped in a Seymour Duncan pickup and added switching for series/parallel/single pickup config. With those changes I still had difficulty getting a satisfying sound out of the bass, not even accounting for the preamp drive issue. Maybe I should have hung in there and tried the preamp swap, but I ended up moving on from Rays, at least for now.

Good luck and have fun with it!

 

[AaronBass4]

Just adding my $0.02 . . . I have a lightly modded Ray4 (re-wired in parallel, TI flats) and I really like it. I would NOT call this the traditional Ray experience in terms of tone a feel. The Ray4 has more of a Jazz neck. Wired in parallel and with the TI flats, the tone is very full and rich but more polite than a what I would think of as traditional Ray tone.

The Ray 34 is a whole different animal. Pretty sure all of the electrical bits are different. Hardware is on another level. And the neck is substantially (IMO) chunkier. 3-band vs 2 band. My daughter has an older Ray 34CA that the differences are substantial. I've been looking for a 34 for myself. So, in true TB fashion, the answer for me will be to have both!

 

[hvymetallurgist]

I set off with similar goals and FWIW really liked what the EMG MMHZ/BQC combo gave me. Can’t speak to current availability/leadtimes but seemed easier than most to find when I was hunting. Zero soldering needed, just some removal of mat’l from the electronics cavity to fit the BQC and you’re good to go. If I had to build another modded Ray I wouldn’t hesitate to go straight back to the EMG MMHZ/BQC combo.

I definitely a fan of a more aggressive tone so thanks for the input. Unfortunately Aguilar pickups are out of stock everywhere I checked. So if I were to get a new a pickup soon, I'm not sure what to pick.

 

[Axious]

Do you have an older sub with the large "SUB" on the headstock or the newer one with the smaller mark?

Older one:
View attachment 4445691

Newer one:
View attachment 4445692

I'm far from being an expert on this subject (and in fact have very little experience), but I went through a SUB experience recently and had a lot of issues with the sound. My understanding is that the preamp in the older version (the one I had) was not all that well designed and could be fairly easily over driven and distorts at even fairly low input levels. If that's the one you have, a preamp swap may be more strongly recommended if you plan to stick with the bass for the long term. I had the older bass with the large "SUB" label, swapped in a Seymour Duncan pickup and added switching for series/parallel/single pickup config. With those changes I still had difficulty getting a satisfying sound out of the bass, not even accounting for the preamp drive issue. Maybe I should have hung in there and tried the preamp swap, but I ended up moving on from Rays, at least for now.

Good luck and have fun with it!

I have a newer one. As far as i'm aware, the main issue with the newer on is the pickup. It's very hot, causing a ton of distortion on the low end. The Pre-amp is just okay.

 

[darwin-bass]

The cheap Ray is a good mod platform only if the things you don't like about are easily changed. PU / preamp swaps, tuner swaps, maybe even a bridge swap - these are all fairly easily accomplished and reversible which preserves resale value.

But if you want the instrument to be lighter or have a different neck shape, then the other mods won't get you where you want to be. That is why I chose to replace mine rather than mod it:

NBD: Stingray something; Can you guess?

 

[mrperkolator]

I love the SUB Ray4 basses as mod platforms. If you like the feel, save yourself hundreds and do a pickup swap on the SUB! Aguilar, Nordstrand and SD are great options for getting the 'classic' Stingray tone. I'd go pickup first, and then decide what you want out of the pre. The aftermarket pickup + stock pre pairing is surprisingly good!

** Chanting in background **

The lobster has spoken. So shall it be done.

** Chanting stops, multiple claws click in unison **

oh and make sure to hit that like button to change his hand back....

 

[eastcoasteddie]

I like the Ray34 because it’s nearly identical to the ‘94 Stingray I used to own. Same feel, 95% the same sound.
But….!!!! It’s dang near $900 for a new one. Spend a few hundred more, and you can get a Real EB used. Heck, I sold my Stingray in 2012 for $850!

So the gains can probably be had with the Ray4 and a controls upgrade off the bat.

 

[Meenkya]

Did a Nordstrand and a John East 3 Band pre on a Ray4; not that i really know the difference but it sounds amazing. A beautiful subdued electric growl!!!

 

[Vanheusen77]

I had a ray4 with a SD pickup and just sold it and bought a stingray special. To me the Ray4 with the upgrade was great but I just wanted the real thing. To me the Ray34 was a kind of in between option that was neither cheap enough or nice enough. The Ray4 with the cheap SD pickup is a great option imo, and in a way it was responsible for selling me on the stingray sound. The Special is a monster bass of course.

 

[Jim C]

Not exactly on topic but I think you guys could be a big help.
I have an 83' Stingray that I've had since the mid 80's and everything about this bass is awesome (for me) except the weight. At 63, 10.5 lbs. is a bit much for 3 sets. I have found a few new SR's that are not heavy but am surprised at what they sell for new especially since I sold a dead mint SR here for $850 when that was the going rate not that long ago.
My questions: I would prefer a 1 5/8" nut and standard SR single pup configuration which I think only is a Ray 34?? The entire MM/SB nomenclature is just a nightmare and I have no problem buying used. The other question is how likely is it to find any of the offshore variants in the 8.5lb. or less range? I have a spare 2-band preamp clone and just need a really good player that is light weight. I should try a Ray 4 just to see if the 1 1/2" nut could work.
TIA!!

 

[Wicked G]

Wow! I'm really surprised. Normally in these type of threads the overwhelming majority say to buy the Ray34 over the Ray4. IMHO I would never pick a Ray4 over the Ray34.

I've owned 2 Ray34's, currently own 2 Ray34 HH's, an EBMM Stingray Special HH and have played a Ray4. The Ray34 HH's are very similar in sound to the Stingray Special IMHO. The Ray4, not so much.

A Ray4 is not a bad instrument and modding could improve it, but since I am not into modding anyway I say get the Ray34. You know exactly what you are getting. Buy once, cry once.

 

[mrperkolator]

Wow! I'm really surprised. Normally in these type of threads the overwhelming majority say to buy the Ray34 over the Ray4. IMHO I would never pick a Ray4 over the Ray34.

I've owned 2 Ray34's, currently own 2 Ray34 HH's, an EBMM Stingray Special HH and have played a Ray4. The Ray34 HH's are very similar in sound to the Stingray Special IMHO. The Ray4, not so much.

A Ray4 is not a bad instrument and modding could improve it, but since I am not into modding anyway I say get the Ray34. You know exactly what you are getting. Buy once, cry once.

I think it should be noted, that the Ray4 is made of a lighter wood, and the Ray34 is heavier wood. So tone may change (all else equal) slightly between the two. Also, there are several of us who aren't fond of heavier basses. So I'd throw down for a modded Ray4 over the Ray34 too. Mostly for weight.

 

[Axious]

I won't be able to go to guitar center until Monday. I'll make decision then when I try out the ray34. But this has been a big help! Thank you everyone who responded! I was not expecting to get nearly this much feedback.
I'm still very split over the matter. Here's what's in my head:
Modded Ray4
Pros:

• Gain Experience Modifying instrument
• Becomes more personal/unique instrument
• Good bones
• Lighter Weight
• Good playability
• Cheaper

Cons:

• Even with upgrades, probably won't capture the exact stingray tone
• Overall lower quality build (though not by much)
• *worse* tonal wood.

Ray34:
Pros:

• Very close to EBMM build quality and tone
• 3 Band EQ and great pickup off the bat
• Ash Body
• Overall look

Cons:

• Expensive
• Heavier
• Close-ish to price of actual MM

It's a really tough choice! I'm still having a hard time deciding. I really want to use this bass to perform as well. We have a basketball pep band, so I'm trying to cut through the sound while also remaining comfortable while playing. If the ray34 is that much heavier I might just have to settle for the ray4 anyways because I'll have to use a heavy bass for an hour and a half+ ~2 times a week.

 

[Jim C]

Doesn't sound like it matters to you but aside from pup, electronics, and body wood, the 34' is closer in width to a P neck, and the 4' is closer to a J neck
BTW, I take a small electronic kitchen scale with me to GC since they won't publish weights.

 

[Axious]

Doesn't sound like it matters to you but aside from pup, electronics, and body wood, the 34' is closer in width to a P neck, and the 4' is closer to a J neck
BTW, I take a small electronic kitchen scale with me to GC since they won't publish weights.

Unfortunately I don't have scale like that, nor do I really know where to get one within walking distance on my campus. But you summed it up pretty well! I definitely like the neck on the ray4 because I'm used to a J neck already.

 

[Axious]

I also have another question. If I were to buy an aftermarket pickup, what kind of magnets should I look for? Most offer either Alnico or Ceramic, but I'm not sure of the tonal differences between them. Like I've said before, I'm really interested in aggressive, punchy, growly tone. I also really enjoy slapping. Like a lot. So what kind of magnets would be the best for what I'm going for?