I mean, the site is for aspiring jazz musicians. Educators often simplify information to fit their students. Those "basic blues and bebop choices" are likely unfamiliar to much of Open Studio's audience.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Money Jungle: A discussion, and more.
- Thread starter Don Kasper
- Start date
I mean, the site is for aspiring jazz musicians. Educators often simplify information to fit their students. Those "basic blues and bebop choices" are likely unfamiliar to much of Open Studio's audience.
It is a business and fairly shady one. They give out easy fun bits to keep people coming back and paying for the courses. Like a bad guitar teacher who teaches songs instead of chords and theory to keep people coming back. People don't need to pay for the light stuff, to quote them, "you'll hear it".
Edit: Believe me, I wish it weren't true. My close friend and former student did a deep "hate watch" and dredged up one cringey thing after another. Like I said, the content with Christian is pure gold and they are local so I wanted to like them.
Last edited:
I'm not a fan of PC's solos generally though I wish I could bow like that. But - he's pretty much my favorite walker and favorite bassist. As far as note choices, I gotta disagree. He is not a root five basic bebop guy once the head is played His lines are beautiful streams of consciousness melody often without a root, fifth, or sometimes even a chord tone.
Sure, but they are never "out". The chromatic lines and leading tones he uses are pretty standard for day. He is one of my favorites as well - his lines are beautiful.
Earl
Supporting Member
That’s the only video of him that I have ever found!
I have several Don Pullen- George Adams quartet records with the fantastic Cameron Brown on bass.
Attachments
Earl
Supporting Member
Yes, I understand. I was just sharing what’s out there (literally and figuratively
).
Okay I took a listen to Money Jungle on my drive to work today. It’s been a moment since I’ve listened to it. For me personally it still holds up and is one of my favorite albums. The only track that I feel doesn’t work is Money Jungle. It’s way too out for this type of setting and there’s just too much going on.
Something that I realized is that this album has more in common with the trio work of Ahmad Jamal than say Oscar Peterson. It’s much more condensed tracks that feel more arranged and conversational. Personally I don’t think Mingus or Roach overplay on the album (asides from my take on the track Money Jungle). Duke leaves plenty of space for them to fill in the blanks and it works well. I’m blanking on the name, but that really slow blues they do is incredible. I really felt that Mingus was composing background lines for a horn section. And Fleurette Africane is easily one of the most beautiful ballads of that era.
Overall, like many have pointed out, this whole album is masterclass in playing outside inside.
Something that I realized is that this album has more in common with the trio work of Ahmad Jamal than say Oscar Peterson. It’s much more condensed tracks that feel more arranged and conversational. Personally I don’t think Mingus or Roach overplay on the album (asides from my take on the track Money Jungle). Duke leaves plenty of space for them to fill in the blanks and it works well. I’m blanking on the name, but that really slow blues they do is incredible. I really felt that Mingus was composing background lines for a horn section. And Fleurette Africane is easily one of the most beautiful ballads of that era.
Overall, like many have pointed out, this whole album is masterclass in playing outside inside.
In response to the following question by Paul Rubin in the book Jazz Spoken Here -- "Do you know anything about the famous Money Jungle session that joined your father with Mingus and Max Roach? Didn't Mingus storm out of that date at one point?" -- Mercer Ellington replied, "He [i.e., Mingus] had an argument with Max Roach, and they vowed never to record again at length, and didn’t [laughter]. They both had their interpretations of what they thought should be done at the time. In fact, originally, it was a contract for albums to be dubbed for United Artists, and they only did the one, and they could never get the three of them back together [laughter]."
Here are three interesting quotes about the Money Jungle session, straight from Duke Ellington (from the superb book, A Portrait of Duke Ellington: Reminiscing in Tempo, by Stuart Nicholson):
1) Money Jungle with Max Roach and Charlie Mingus was quite an experience. One thing great about it was that it was done from a very primitive artistic perspective. For instance, we had one meeting one day in the office. We sat around, talked a little bit about something and that was it. The next meeting we had was the recording date. I did go through a few bars and they fell in, and it was just that. One number in particular was as close to spontaneity as you can get, I believe. I explained what we were going to do, with no thought as to what they were going to do. I said, "Now we are in the center of a jungle, and for two hundred miles in any direction, no man has ever been. And right in the center of this jungle, put in the deep moss, there's a tiny little flower growing, the most fragile thing that's ever grown. It's God-made and untouched and this is going to be 'The Little African Flower'" [listed on the recording as "Le Fleurs Africaines" or "Fleurette Africaine" depending on the pressing]. I started to play, and we played to the end and that was it. People like Mingus and Roach, they are so imaginative, and I thought this was the greatest example of it. Everybody gave his own impression of this little number, though it's possibly a little surrealistic.
2) A funny thing happened in the middle of the session. Mingus suddenly and without warning started to pack up his bass and when I enquired where he was going and what was the trouble, he said, "Man I can't play with that drummer." I said, "Why? What's wrong?" He said, "Duke I've always loved you and what you're doing in music but you'll just have to get another bass player." And I said, "You mean just like that in the middle of a date — come on man, it can't be that serious." But he kept packing and went out of the door to the elevator, I followed him to the elevator and after he roll off a few more beefs, I slowly and quietly said, "Mingus, my man UA [United Artists, the label for whom they were recording] gave you a full page ad in Xmas Billboard — it was beautiful — yeah." Then I continued, "You know if Col Rec [Columbia Records] had spent that $ on my promoting I would be with them today." He paused, thought for a second and said, "Man, you're right. OK, I'll play your session." Picked up the bass, came back into the studio and we recorded very happily ever after until the album was done.
3) Roach's rhythm embellishments couldn't have been more fitting or sound more authentic. While Mingus with his eyes closed fell into each and every harmonic groove adding counter melodies as though he had been playing it all his life. It was one of those mystic moments when our three muses were one and the same, a one take too — I was gassed.
--- Sources:
1) An edited talk between Duke Ellington and Henry Whiston of the Canadian Broadcasting Company, published in Jazz Journal, February 1967, p. 6.
2) & 3) Duke Ellington's handwritten notes for his autobiography Music Is My Mistress. This section was on the notepaper of the Ambassador Hotel, Chicago. The Duke Ellington Collection #301, Series 5 (Box #5, Folder 6), Courtesy Archives Center, NMAH, Smithsonian Institution, Washington D.C.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The book also includes a very succinct quote from Max Roach about the session:
"In the studio with Charles Mingus and Mr. Ellington, so that was like phew! That was a moment." [Interview with the author, December 30, 1997]
1) Money Jungle with Max Roach and Charlie Mingus was quite an experience. One thing great about it was that it was done from a very primitive artistic perspective. For instance, we had one meeting one day in the office. We sat around, talked a little bit about something and that was it. The next meeting we had was the recording date. I did go through a few bars and they fell in, and it was just that. One number in particular was as close to spontaneity as you can get, I believe. I explained what we were going to do, with no thought as to what they were going to do. I said, "Now we are in the center of a jungle, and for two hundred miles in any direction, no man has ever been. And right in the center of this jungle, put in the deep moss, there's a tiny little flower growing, the most fragile thing that's ever grown. It's God-made and untouched and this is going to be 'The Little African Flower'" [listed on the recording as "Le Fleurs Africaines" or "Fleurette Africaine" depending on the pressing]. I started to play, and we played to the end and that was it. People like Mingus and Roach, they are so imaginative, and I thought this was the greatest example of it. Everybody gave his own impression of this little number, though it's possibly a little surrealistic.
2) A funny thing happened in the middle of the session. Mingus suddenly and without warning started to pack up his bass and when I enquired where he was going and what was the trouble, he said, "Man I can't play with that drummer." I said, "Why? What's wrong?" He said, "Duke I've always loved you and what you're doing in music but you'll just have to get another bass player." And I said, "You mean just like that in the middle of a date — come on man, it can't be that serious." But he kept packing and went out of the door to the elevator, I followed him to the elevator and after he roll off a few more beefs, I slowly and quietly said, "Mingus, my man UA [United Artists, the label for whom they were recording] gave you a full page ad in Xmas Billboard — it was beautiful — yeah." Then I continued, "You know if Col Rec [Columbia Records] had spent that $ on my promoting I would be with them today." He paused, thought for a second and said, "Man, you're right. OK, I'll play your session." Picked up the bass, came back into the studio and we recorded very happily ever after until the album was done.
3) Roach's rhythm embellishments couldn't have been more fitting or sound more authentic. While Mingus with his eyes closed fell into each and every harmonic groove adding counter melodies as though he had been playing it all his life. It was one of those mystic moments when our three muses were one and the same, a one take too — I was gassed.
--- Sources:
1) An edited talk between Duke Ellington and Henry Whiston of the Canadian Broadcasting Company, published in Jazz Journal, February 1967, p. 6.
2) & 3) Duke Ellington's handwritten notes for his autobiography Music Is My Mistress. This section was on the notepaper of the Ambassador Hotel, Chicago. The Duke Ellington Collection #301, Series 5 (Box #5, Folder 6), Courtesy Archives Center, NMAH, Smithsonian Institution, Washington D.C.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The book also includes a very succinct quote from Max Roach about the session:
"In the studio with Charles Mingus and Mr. Ellington, so that was like phew! That was a moment." [Interview with the author, December 30, 1997]
