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monitors for direct / no-amp stage setup?

L

leemurray

Oct 4, 2008
61
21
#1
I am trying out going direct , using no amp on stage. Not just to be like Geddy Lee, but for several reasons.

-smaller stage footprint (alot of places we play are very small)

-helps control stage volume (drummer is electronic and direct so that is nice that we can control his level too. also putting the guitars directly in using a pod)

-helps to blend for the FOH mix

-less to carry

I have the Behringer BDI21 direct box, and it sounds pretty good to get a decent tone direct into the board.

Question is around monitors - does anyone out there do this setup, and what kind of monitors do you use? I have been looking at the Behringer B2125D/B212D and the QSC K10/K12. I am looking for something that is portable and versatile.
 
#3
I tried out a Harbinger APS12 but it lacked some low end and headroom. and is a little harsh in the midrange. not bad for a simple application but I really need to hear my bass better if I don't have a dedicated bass amp with me. I also tried out the K10 - its been awhile, but I think it neede more low end also.
 
#5
We do something very close to this setup, except we have acoustic drums.

We use in-ears, ...very portable! I can carry all 4 sets of monitors in my shirt pocket!

I can generally count on the FOH bass bleed to supplement the bass (and all low end in general). What I'm trying to say is that you may get some bass reinforcement from the main PA when playing at "gig volume". Your monitors on their own may sound a little thin, but when the whole PA is fired up, the low end might be just fine.
 
#6
leemurray said:
I tried out a Harbinger APS12 but it lacked some low end and headroom. and is a little harsh in the midrange. not bad for a simple application but I really need to hear my bass better if I don't have a dedicated bass amp with me. I also tried out the K10 - its been awhile, but I think it neede more low end also.
Click to expand...

If you play a gig where the PA has a sub, try standing next to it. You'll feel the low end and hear the high end from your monitor.
 
#7
Yes i guess the in-ear solution is truly the ultimate in the less-is-more category. I am not sure i am ready to take that step. I will have to figure it out and see if the other guys are up for it. See if they are ok getting fitted and being wired up.

We are pretty amateur so the in-ear might too fancy for our needs. But i am going to check it out in more depth. Thanks for the reminder.

Still want to see if the wedge monitor thing will be a good option.
 
#8
Can anyone recommend any good lightweight and hopefully cheap subs?

I know what you mean about feeling the bass vs hearing it. That would work but i am trying to keep it pretty simple and portable. If thats possible with a sub.
 
#9
Do you have a monitor now? If not, you won't save any space unless your bass rig is huge. I find it much easier to find room for my bass amp behind me than to fit another monitor which tends to encroach on the dance floor.
 
#13
yep that's old school simple, been there done that. It only took me 20 years to realize that was really hurting the vocals, not being able to hear them since they speakers were in front of us and pointed to the audience, and they stage volume was so loud with drums and amps.

so we finally put some wedges up front and it is so much better doing vocals. now would like to try to get all the rest of the instruments coming through the monitor mix too and really get the stage volume and footprint down. (getting older)
 
#14
leemurray said:
yep that's old school simple, been there done that. It only took me 20 years to realize that was really hurting the vocals, not being able to hear them since they speakers were in front of us and pointed to the audience, and they stage volume was so loud with drums and amps.

so we finally put some wedges up front and it is so much better doing vocals. now would like to try to get all the rest of the instruments coming through the monitor mix too and really get the stage volume and footprint down. (getting older)
Click to expand...

A very worthy goal!

I still think you should keep the bass amp on stage. Just run it through the PA and turn it down. We sometimes get to play one club here in town that has a very professional sound setup. It is unbelievable how good the bass sounds. I even get my own monitor! But I still use the bass amp as my bass monitor.
 
#15
The subs on mains are low frequency omnidirectional. You just need something for the upper bass range on up. Any monitor can handle it.

IEMs are great as you an rehearse with them with an edrummer until the wee hours of the night. Get the balance perfected in the IEMs, When you go onstage - it's the same sound as rehearsing.
 
#17
You could use a separate small bass combo amp from a Markbass or GK. I like having my bass amp personally even if it is something tiny.

If you get yourself a good powered monitor that can handle bass well you could use a Rolls PM 351 to mix the monitor send with your vocals and bass. If you want to hear a little more of yourself it is no problem. I suspect that monitor will look more like a good sized PA cab instead of a typical monitor.
 
#18
are you singing through this monitor as well, or are you using it to hear the other members?

if not, if this monitor is going to just be for your bass, then all you've done is swap out one bass amp and cab for another one.

either way, cheap monitors aren't going to cut it for bass beyond "acoustic band" level, and sharing a monitor mix with the other players so that it puts bass in their wedges too probably won't work at all.

if you don't have kick-butt wedges and your own mix, you're all better off if you just bring the bass amp.
 
#19
I thought I would give you guys an update on things since the thread started:

Last couple of gigs we had good success going all-direct. These were small parties, so it was fairly easy to do. here is the setup:

-drummer is now playing roland v-drums (this alone is the biggest factor in volume control, and makes me VERY happy). Upgrading to the v-drums with the mesh heads is what sold him on doing it. the feel and sound great.

-guitars and bass all direct ( line 6 pod and bass pod xt, fender mustang III direct, acoustics straight into the board). I love my bass pod now. the BDI21 is still good for something basic, but getting some cool tones from the bass pod. believe it or not, we are using the old pocket pod express model for one of the guitars and it sounds great, simple and cheap.

-for mains we have used a pair of QSC HPR 152i's (now replaced by the KW152) , and also the Behringer B215D's. Obviously the QSC's are much better sounding and powerful, but the Behringer are ok, and handle the bass ok. The HPR's were a little boomy, so we actually had to eq some of the low end out. they are monsters for small gigs.

-no monitors, used the mains on the front sides angled back towards us where we could hear them. slightly farther back then you would normally place them. this was made possible by:

-using the behringer shark FBQ100 for feedback suppression(on the bus for vocal channels only). This really seemed to help, especially in small spaces with a lot of reflection. don't put the instruments through there as it will color them too much, but it didn't seem to negatively impact the vocals very much.

With this setup, the whole band was very pleased at the sound quality, clarity, and level. and we got compliments on the sound from several of the guests. We definitely want to keep doing this.

We are also experimenting with IEM's. I see what the other posters said about feeling the low-end from FOH bleed, and getting the mids/highs from the IEM's. we may add the IEM's in other larger situations, but for the smaller places, using the Mains turned in and the shark worked pretty well.

and oh yes, much less to carry and cleaner stage. very Happy :D
 

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