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Moog bass into SVT-VR?

#41
Yes, power is cheap(ish) now, but to reproduce 16 Hz, I think the OP's gonna need to blow a bunch of dough on new cabs and stuff. I don't think any bass rig out on the market could handle that kind of stuff with ease. Also, yes, the 810E rolls off around 55~70Hz I think, so that may be a bottle-neck, but the SVT-VR when paired with proper cabs for this purpose should be fine.

The VR isn't really the limiting factor, the cabinet is.
 
#43
Uhm, no, middle C is the 2nd C on a guitar, which you can't even get to on a 4 string. Consensus around here is that low E on a bass is 41Hz, on a guitar 82. If the open G on a bass was really 198Hz, that would mean the lowest note on a bass would be around 82Hz, meaning no one would care if a cab is rated down to 35Hz or 55Hz, because nothing would be that low anyway. Sure dude, but you're an octave too high.

Think about it, 20Hz is the nominal "bottom" of average human hearing. Do you really think there could be 2 entire octaves (20-40 and 40-80) between what we can hear and the low E on a bass?

As far as reproducing 16Hz, well, it does take power, but the more roll off you have between the amp and cab, the more power it's going to take to boost those notes up to a useable level.
 
#47
Ten years ago when I was in a YES tribute band, I of course had to be like Squire and play not only a Ric 4001CS but also a set of bass pedals. I didn't use Taurus pedals, but rather a Roland PK-5 foot controller into a synth sound module. Just like Taurus pedals, the PK-5 is a one-octave set of pedals, from C to C. I set the lowest C at 32.7 hz for our performances. The audience always knew when I stepped on those pedals!

In order to provide the earth shaking feeling and sound for the audience at adequate sound pressure levels (SPL's), I ran it into a 3200 watt power amp, then into a pair of ported subs that I made myself (designed per Thiele-Small parameters for the driver I used for each cab). Each cab was about the size of a typical washing machine and was loaded with a McCauley 6174 driver rated at 800 watts with a frequency range of 15hz to 800hz. These are the same drivers that are used at Universal Studios in the Terminator 3 auditorium.

My point is this: I think the Ampeg SVT-VR amp is fully capable of providing the power and frequency range that the OP is looking for. In my opinion, the Ampeg HLF cab is going to be the limiting factor. To generate adequate SPL's at such a low frequency, you need to have drivers with the capability to move lots of air. That's the key! The McCauley 6174 driver has a whopping 2 inch peak to peak excursion! The drivers in the Ampeg cab are nowhere near that. The HLF cab works fine for bass guitar, but IMO it will not provide adequate SPL's at synth-generated low frequencies. My recommendation would be for the OP to stick with the SVT-VR amp and find more suitable cabs/drivers to push that sound into the audience.

Below is a link to the 6174 driver for those interested. I have no affiliation with McCauley.

http://www.mccauley.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=126
 
#49
jungleheat said:
100Hz is somewhere around your G-string, which on most people is pretty far from their chest. Not to mention, if that was really all it took, no one would bother making cabs that are tuned to 35Hz or even 55Hz.

Anyway, if that was true, bass pedals wouldn't sound so huge and deep compared to bass guitar (which has plenty of energy between 100-200Hz). I know you love the SVT and anything that says "Ampeg" on it for bass guitar, but I get the feeling that you would recommend the SVT for literally anything, regardless of how appropriate it was. And I feel like you probably don't have the most experience with using bass pedals anyway. Dont you play with Bowser or something? That's about as far as you can get from typical bass pedal using bands.
Click to expand...
Yes I do, and that means I have never ever played any kind of music with anyone else nor ever used a synth in my life.

Seriously now, is that what you really believe?

Listen, all this talk of fundamentals being at this frequency or that frequency do not apply when it comes to bass notes. Those notes are heard WAY more from the 2nd harmonic than the fundamental, and being able to reproduce a clean fundamental at 20hz is absolutely not necessary because the notes themselves don't have that much energy at 20 hz. It's been proven over and over. Yes, even on a synth.
 
#50
Ok, when was the last time you ran synth bass sounds through a bass rig? For me, it was like 2 weeks ago at practice, because I use my PK5 pedals and Roland Alpha Juno in one of my bands. And I've been playing synths consistently for 25 years, and been into hifi audio that entire time, and sound engineering most of that time (ie since I was a kid). My point was that you're probably not the foremost expert here on that kind of stuff. I don't know, maybe until recently you were playing all kinds of crazy prog and electronic music and using tons of synths. Were you?

On a synth, you can have LOTS of energy, even down to 20Hz, and with a steep LPF you might not have much in the way of upper harmonics at all. Really depends on what kind of sound you are going for. The whole point of synths is that they aren't limited by the physics of sound until they come out of the speaker itself. And speakers are much more versatile than any "acoustic" musical instrument. Could you imagine a guitar reproducing a Beethoven symphony in CD quality sound? Of course not. So when you start with a source that can go far beyond the limits of traditional instruments, and then reproduce that with advanced speakers that push the limits of physics as much as technology will allow, you have a LOT more going on than you can get with an electromagnetic transfer of what is basically an acoustic instrument through maybe not so advanced speakers.

Honestly, I think it's silly you're even arguing about it, but I'm sure Ampeg feels great about having you as an endorser, because you're certainly persistent.
 
#51
JimmyM said:
Listen, all this talk of fundamentals being at this frequency or that frequency do not apply when it comes to bass notes. Those notes are heard WAY more from the 2nd harmonic than the fundamental, and being able to reproduce a clean fundamental at 20hz is absolutely not necessary because the notes themselves don't have that much energy at 20 hz. It's been proven over and over. Yes, even on a synth.
Click to expand...

No the simple waveforms of synthesizer oscillators are not the same as complex waveforms from bass guitar. Pure sine is 100% fundamental. Square and saw waves (taurus is saw only) are a combination of fundamental with upper harmonics where the fundamental frequency represents the greatest magnitude in the spectrum.
 
#55
Speaking from experience, it's real easy to pop drivers with a synth. They put out gobs of sustained low end. I haven't played one on stage for a long time, but I burned up more than one 18" CV driver in an acoustic 301 cab when I did.
 

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