Having owned an SM-500 for a few years, I think that's about as much ado about nothing as being concerned that the SVT has too little low end to run a synth.
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Moog bass into SVT-VR?
- Thread starter youunicornsyou
- Start date
The question is how much sub bass will come out of the amp and just how much the HLF can handle.
HLF is a low tuned cab but it's not a subwoofer. I suspect you could easily fart it out with the synth pedal if you aren't careful. 40Hz rolled off -3dB by the amp would still be +6dB if the pedal runs riot.
Be careful!
HLF is a low tuned cab but it's not a subwoofer. I suspect you could easily fart it out with the synth pedal if you aren't careful. 40Hz rolled off -3dB by the amp would still be +6dB if the pedal runs riot.
Be careful!
That's true only if you're thinking in terms of bass guitar which has lots of extraneous "amusical" sub-sonic sounds and noises happening. Just resting your hands on the strings a certain way might cause a very low frequency noise to come through the amp, which yes, would "steal" your power while it is happening.
But coming from a synth, it will be "sterile". You won't have all those extraneous noises to contend with, just that deep deep synth loveliness. So the lack of an HPF is an asset in that case and not a liability. Better to control those extra low sounds at the source anyway (most synths have a built in adjustable HPF, don't know about the Minitaur). Otherwise you have to EQ back in what you just took out, which is not ideal.
I do actually play keys (for 1/4 century at this point) as well as bass (as well as guitar), and also do some sound/engineering work on the side, so I have a pretty good amount of experience with this stuff.
And I don't see how any of my comments qualify me as an "Ampeg hater"? I just don't think the SVT would be the IDEAL amp for this application. Just like a 50Wx2 McIntosh tube amp from the 70s wouldn't be the ideal amp for a club PA system. It will probably sound killer in certain applications, but not necessarily the overall ideal. Sorry I'm not one of the SVT fanboys who think it can cure cancer, balance the budget, and give great... It's a great amp, but not for everything and not for everyone. A Guild Starfire might be a great bass, but I'm not going to try to play downtuned technical metal on it.
Again, I'm sure you could get great, usable sounds out of that setup, if it's what you have on hand. But if you were building a purpose built setup for bass synth, no flavor of SVT is really what I would go with as my first choice. The HLF however, or any "big" (2x15/4x10 or bigger) low tuned, ported cab should do quite well though.
The problem isn't you not liking it. The problem is the misinformation you gave explaining why you wouldn't like it.
speaking from experience here. You woudl be surprised at how loud you can get with a 40hz sine wave before it sounds loud. I have had a synth plugged in and a O-scope multed off the output showing my waveform. Ran a good 32' tone with the gain fairly low. It showed up as a vaguely sawtoothed sinewave. Kept turning it up because I just couldn't hear it.
Then I turned around and noticed my giant 2x15 three way Community cab was walking itself across the floor with much abandon.
40hz by itself is almost inaudible!
Anyway, my Moogs sound fantastic through my Traynor YGL3 or my Mesa Bass 400. The mesa has more bottom end, but the Tryanor has a smoother mid. I actually prefer guitar combos for synths. They are pretty manageable, and the low mids are good enough for lows, without stepping on the bass or kick.
Then I turned around and noticed my giant 2x15 three way Community cab was walking itself across the floor with much abandon.
40hz by itself is almost inaudible!
Anyway, my Moogs sound fantastic through my Traynor YGL3 or my Mesa Bass 400. The mesa has more bottom end, but the Tryanor has a smoother mid. I actually prefer guitar combos for synths. They are pretty manageable, and the low mids are good enough for lows, without stepping on the bass or kick.
I play synthesizers more than bass, though I was a bassist first. A PA or keyboard amp is usually preferred, but I like a good bass rig for synth, and presently use a Mesa M3 paired with a DB210 as a stage monitor. My bandmates, and me, think it sounds awesome, and full range. The SVT VR may be a bit more warm and tubey, but should sound fantastic none the less. I'm not sure about a guitar amp, though splitting the signal between a bass or keyboard amp AND a guitar amp could be interesting.
I saw Sunn 0))) last night and they were using nothing but Ampeg tube heads with 8X10 (6 8X10s to be exact) and Sunn Model Ts into 4X12 (I believe 16 of those) and then those all were mic'ed into the PA.
Considering that I could literally feel every single piece of body vibrating I will go ahead and say that the 8X10s had enough low end.
Considering that I could literally feel every single piece of body vibrating I will go ahead and say that the 8X10s had enough low end.
I believe its a fact that many amps, svt included, are bandwidth limited when amplifying a taurus. Of course thats not the same as saying it wont have enough bass.
What misinformation is that? I would be very surprised if someone could show conclusively that an SVT had an equal or lower HPF point as a typical SWR (SM series, etc...). Go find a synth with an HPF knob. Turn it. The low end will literally disappear, just like the high end disappears when you sweep a LPF, which is what gives analog synths that warm sound (or that buzziness they have when the LPF cutoff is set fairly high). Sorry broham, I think you are a bit out of your depth on this topic, I've been dealing with this stuff LITERALLY since I was like 8 years old and have spent most of my "free" time on it, including hifi audio stuff (Mc, JBL, Martin Logan electrostatics, huge fridge sized subs that play flat to like 12Hz, etc...).
That's what gives Taurus pedals that huge sound. They go lower than a 4 string and have a LOT more fundamental to them than a bass string. If you have an HPF set around 40Hz or so, you will be cutting off a lot of that effect, before the sound goes to your cab/s and the same region gets cut off some more.
Again, I haven't said the SVT wouldn't sound good. But I don't think you will get the full effect of having low synth bass with an SVT over something like an SWR. It's a solution but probably not the optimal one if your main goal is kick you in the chest deep bass (which is what I like about bass pedals, and what a lot of people like about them and synth bass in general).
That's what gives Taurus pedals that huge sound. They go lower than a 4 string and have a LOT more fundamental to them than a bass string. If you have an HPF set around 40Hz or so, you will be cutting off a lot of that effect, before the sound goes to your cab/s and the same region gets cut off some more.
Again, I haven't said the SVT wouldn't sound good. But I don't think you will get the full effect of having low synth bass with an SVT over something like an SWR. It's a solution but probably not the optimal one if your main goal is kick you in the chest deep bass (which is what I like about bass pedals, and what a lot of people like about them and synth bass in general).
Kick you in the chest bass is from 100-200hz as far as I'm concerned. But go read Bass Gear's review of a vintage SVT in issue 4 if you don't believe me. Plenty enough low end for bass pedals.
can somone suggest a better cab to pair with the SVT-VR considering the short comings of the ampeg810
What shortcomings are they? No tweeter? Rolloff at 55hz? Those aren't shortcomings to me...those are features!
so, guys, can I plug the synth directly in the normal input of my svt?
I'm a newbie with synth, I'm afraid to blow the cab or the head...
I'm a newbie with synth, I'm afraid to blow the cab or the head...
100Hz is somewhere around your G-string, which on most people is pretty far from their chest. Not to mention, if that was really all it took, no one would bother making cabs that are tuned to 35Hz or even 55Hz.
Anyway, if that was true, bass pedals wouldn't sound so huge and deep compared to bass guitar (which has plenty of energy between 100-200Hz). I know you love the SVT and anything that says "Ampeg" on it for bass guitar, but I get the feeling that you would recommend the SVT for literally anything, regardless of how appropriate it was. And I feel like you probably don't have the most experience with using bass pedals anyway. Dont you play with Bowser or something? That's about as far as you can get from typical bass pedal using bands.
And yes, you can just plug the synth into the regular input of the amp. You may want to start with the volume on the synth fairly low, since it will be a higher signal level than a typical bass would probably be (so you don't get input clipping).
Anyway, if that was true, bass pedals wouldn't sound so huge and deep compared to bass guitar (which has plenty of energy between 100-200Hz). I know you love the SVT and anything that says "Ampeg" on it for bass guitar, but I get the feeling that you would recommend the SVT for literally anything, regardless of how appropriate it was. And I feel like you probably don't have the most experience with using bass pedals anyway. Dont you play with Bowser or something? That's about as far as you can get from typical bass pedal using bands.
And yes, you can just plug the synth into the regular input of the amp. You may want to start with the volume on the synth fairly low, since it will be a higher signal level than a typical bass would probably be (so you don't get input clipping).
Chest pounding bass is great for sure and bass synths have plenty of that but what makes the taurus special is its organ rearranging capability. 
Regarding the shortcomings of amplifying a bass synth like taurus through the 810... any quality, large ported cab will work better. Tweeters i can take or leave based on the limited upper range of bass synth.
I occasionally play my t3s through my nv610 and it works fine but the low end rolloff is obvious. Even with a full range rig like the mackie power amp and monique pre i have. I get more lows (at lower spl) with my ported gk 112.
Regarding the shortcomings of amplifying a bass synth like taurus through the 810... any quality, large ported cab will work better. Tweeters i can take or leave based on the limited upper range of bass synth.
I occasionally play my t3s through my nv610 and it works fine but the low end rolloff is obvious. Even with a full range rig like the mackie power amp and monique pre i have. I get more lows (at lower spl) with my ported gk 112.
I don't know the exact number, but the thought of wearing a G-string "Hurts". 
SWRs are pretty notorious for pumping out subsonic content, which may be a good thing in some cases, but it can also be considered a fault for many people. If you really want huge fundamentals it'd be a good choice, but you're gonna need a cab that can handle it. On the other hand, I don't think the SVT can be considered lacking in the bottom end, it's just a matter of the choice of cabs.
SWRs are pretty notorious for pumping out subsonic content, which may be a good thing in some cases, but it can also be considered a fault for many people. If you really want huge fundamentals it'd be a good choice, but you're gonna need a cab that can handle it. On the other hand, I don't think the SVT can be considered lacking in the bottom end, it's just a matter of the choice of cabs.
Did I do the math wrong? If the E string is like 41Hz or so, octave up on the D string is 82Hz, another octave up (7th fret on the G) would be 164Hz. So somewhere between 82 and 164 is the open G string. Your own link says the G string is G2, 98Hz (look at where it sits in relation to the E strings of bass and guitar).
If you have a graphic EQ, go ahead and hook it up to a PA or a big home stereo, play back the bassiest CD you can get your hands on, and then cut everything below 100Hz and then crank it up as much as you can within the limits of the amp/speakers, and see how much "chest thumping" you get. Now, bring the 30Hz slider back to 0 and see the difference it makes.
100-200Hz is more like body/"growl" of a bass. It adds a lot of necessary meat, but it's not your gut shaking, chest thumping lows in that range. Have you ever heard a "chest thumping" open G chord from a solo guitar? Guessing not. The numbers don't lie. The lowest nominal note you will get out of typical bass pedals (13 note C-C) is going to be about 32Hz. But with a sub bass sound setting, you could have another note an octave below that, at 16Hz. So if you had a HPF at 35-40Hz, you're getting significant roll off on an entire OCTAVE+ of fundamental. Add in a cab that rolls off around 80-100Hz (which is I believe somewhere around where the SVT 810 rolls off), and you've lost a HUGE amount of your fundamental over your lowest 2 octaves or so.
Plus, power is CHEAP these days. You can get 500Wx2 power amps for a few hundred bucks (or less). Having extra power like that is going to result in extra clean headroom (which you want for such low notes) as well as better transient response.
If you have a graphic EQ, go ahead and hook it up to a PA or a big home stereo, play back the bassiest CD you can get your hands on, and then cut everything below 100Hz and then crank it up as much as you can within the limits of the amp/speakers, and see how much "chest thumping" you get. Now, bring the 30Hz slider back to 0 and see the difference it makes.
100-200Hz is more like body/"growl" of a bass. It adds a lot of necessary meat, but it's not your gut shaking, chest thumping lows in that range. Have you ever heard a "chest thumping" open G chord from a solo guitar? Guessing not. The numbers don't lie. The lowest nominal note you will get out of typical bass pedals (13 note C-C) is going to be about 32Hz. But with a sub bass sound setting, you could have another note an octave below that, at 16Hz. So if you had a HPF at 35-40Hz, you're getting significant roll off on an entire OCTAVE+ of fundamental. Add in a cab that rolls off around 80-100Hz (which is I believe somewhere around where the SVT 810 rolls off), and you've lost a HUGE amount of your fundamental over your lowest 2 octaves or so.
Plus, power is CHEAP these days. You can get 500Wx2 power amps for a few hundred bucks (or less). Having extra power like that is going to result in extra clean headroom (which you want for such low notes) as well as better transient response.
^ maybe the link is wrong, was just a quick google.
but "middle c" is the c on the g string which is 261 hz, the g below it on the chart is 201hz which is also listed as the top space on on the bass clef...
so like jimmy said, 100-200 hz is pretty much the fundamental of the a d and g strings...the growl comes from the harmonics.
fundamental is what hits you in the chest.
as far as the svt, the head i think it pretty flat. the cabinet has the rolloff.
but "middle c" is the c on the g string which is 261 hz, the g below it on the chart is 201hz which is also listed as the top space on on the bass clef...
so like jimmy said, 100-200 hz is pretty much the fundamental of the a d and g strings...the growl comes from the harmonics.
fundamental is what hits you in the chest.
as far as the svt, the head i think it pretty flat. the cabinet has the rolloff.
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