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Most and Least Trusted Occupations

There is a misconception about news these days.

It has morphed from a neutral reporting of facts to just another form of lowbrow entertainment specifically designed to sell advertising. The only thing factual in news these days is stories originate from actual occurrences, but any semblance to the actual facts and what is reported is strictly coincidental and most certainly not intentional.

Stories get spun to attract a certain demographic for which advertising is then tailored to achieve maximum effect on the pre-qualified audience.
 
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From article: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Society believes that the military and teachers contribute far more than business execs and lawyers do, yet the pay difference between the two is extremely pronounced. Why do the market and the general population have such different viewpoints?

Military? Are you kidding me?

And clergy contribute more than artists? What kind of results are these? I may agree with the rest, but not with the military and the clergy. To me, to be honest, they do little to improve society.

And what about the other professions? What about us psychologists? What about athletes? Cops? Salesmen? Architects? Truck drivers? Etc, etc, etc. None of those fall into any of the categories in that poll.
 
Actually, I'd say it's rather obvious. The occupations at the bottom of the chart work for money, therefore they get the most of it. They handle people's essential business, their property rights and finances, often on a large scale. BECAUSE they are responsible for what happens with large amounts of money, they get paid a lot of money, and so people perceive them as working to make money for themselves rather than working for the common good.

People at the top of the chart, on the other hand, choose their occupation for the satisfaction of serving their community. They don't handle large amounts of other people's finances and property, so they don't get paid much. And thus society perceives them as good, self-sacrificing people who labor for the common good.

The poll is all about perception and doesn't tell you a thing about reality. There's no way to quantify whether a good lawyer or a good teacher contributes "more" to society.
But that's the thing, society does quantify it with income. While some of these jobs may be further downstream of the monetary sewer system than others, I tend to believe that they're all interdependent on one another to exist. Like any other complex specialized system it requires function across the board to maintain stability.
its really simple

law of supply and demand
But according to the poll the demand for business execs and lawyers is extremely low with the public, while demand for soldiers and teachers is high.
 
I'm not sure I agree with your view, contribution (perception) ≠ worth ≠ salary. Salary is but a produce of the market.
I have reread your post five times and still not sure I am getting which position you're arguing.:P

I do feel that salary is not simply derived from market forces, social forces are greatly at play. The fields historically performed by rich white men continue to pay at a level reflective of that, while those historically performed by women and minorities... not so much.
 
There is no denying to that, I just meant that ceteris paribus a job that brings in big money is more likely to be paid big money.The perception of contribution as little if nothing to do with it.
 
There is no denying to that, I just meant that ceteris paribus a job that brings in big money is more likely to be paid big money.The perception of contribution as little if nothing to do with it.
Well... ah... peter cetera, the industries that are too profitable do so at the expense of the rest of the population and those profits should be kept in check so that more noble areas of the economy are allowed to be justly compensated.

*he said buttoning up his shirt to hide the hammer and sickle*
 
Military? Are you kidding me?

And clergy contribute more than artists? What kind of results are these? I may agree with the rest, but not with the military and the clergy. To me, to be honest, they do little to improve society.

And what about the other professions? What about us psychologists? What about athletes? Cops? Salesmen? Architects? Truck drivers? Etc, etc, etc. None of those fall into any of the categories in that poll.

To deal with the last thing first, the categories shown are obviously chosen to provoke discussions like the one on this thread, not to give a comprehensive survey of all occupations. There's no effort to represent all professions on this particular chart, if indeed the people surveyed were even asked about other occupations.

For the military, doubtless what survey respondents had in mind was not the infamous but abstract "military-industrial complex" but ordinary soldiers and vets, whom people have much more concrete familiarity with. Those guys put their lives on the line for what they believe to be the security of their countrymen, for peanuts in terms of a paycheck.

Clergy vs. artists isn't hard to figure out at all. The bulk of people in the US are religious to some extent, and they have experienced the clergy being there for them to baptize their babies, to marry them, to visit them in the hospital, to bury their dead, and to counsel and pray for them through all the stress and troubles that accompany these life events. The average minister has about the same education as the average lawyer and gets paid a fraction of what the lawyer does. This day-to-day reality of people's interaction with the clergy, which is largely invisible in the media, struggles in public perception with headline scandals, which get SO much attention precisely because they DO violate so egregiously the actual norms of religious life.

Artists, meanwhile - are not there at people's sickbeds. Most of what one hears from society's "artists" are very self-absorbed egotists who have very little interest in how their art serves society at large, very little understanding or sympathy for ordinary folk, and a strong sense of entitlement that just making some BS and labeling it "art" entitles them to public support.

But that's the thing, society does quantify it with income. While some of these jobs may be further downstream of the monetary sewer system than others, I tend to believe that they're all interdependent on one another to exist. Like any other complex specialized system it requires function across the board to maintain stability.

But according to the poll the demand for business execs and lawyers is extremely low with the public, while demand for soldiers and teachers is high.

No, wrong - society doesn't pay anybody anything. Employers do (or clients, for the more or less self-employed). An employer pays his employees (or clients pay professional service providers, like lawyers) whatever their work is worth to the employer. If that work stands to make (or save) the employer lots of money, the employer will pay more for it. But people like soldiers and teachers are paid by the state, and the state doesn't make any more or less of a profit if it pays its soldiers and teachers more or less.

Meanwhile, although they like to make a living, people like teachers and soldiers don't choose those professions for the sake of the money they will make. Also, they have much more limited options than business executives or lawyers to turn down one employer and go with another who will pay them more for the same work. So lawyers and businessmen make more, and teachers and soldiers less.

Meanwhile, remember that the chart is a survey result - it reflects public perceptions, not realities (and perceptions only insofar as the methodology was sound, which I don't know).
 
No, wrong - society doesn't pay anybody anything. Employers do (or clients, for the more or less self-employed).
Society's tacit consent allows for employers to do anything, whether through reform at the ballot or more direct measures.
An employer pays his employees (or clients pay professional service providers, like lawyers) whatever their work is worth to the employer. If that work stands to make (or save) the employer lots of money, the employer will pay more for it.
But they're doing so based on market standards that were established decades, sometimes centuries ago. We've not seen the kind of correction that allows professions that've historically attracted women to catch up to pay rates they deserve partly because society spends so much money overcompensating the bottom rungs of this list.
But people like soldiers and teachers are paid by the state, and the state doesn't make any more or less of a profit if it pays its soldiers and teachers more or less.
Disagree. Populist reforms are most effective when they can point to governmental waste. It's a balancing act of attracting qualified candidates and employees so that the respective areas are properly staffed and competent while not overpaying them so much as to rally the pitchforks and torches of the anti-government crowd.
Meanwhile, although they like to make a living, people like teachers and soldiers don't choose those professions for the sake of the money they will make. Also, they have much more limited options than business executives or lawyers to turn down one employer and go with another who will pay them more for the same work. So lawyers and businessmen make more, and teachers and soldiers less.
While public sector workers don't have the same ability to compete with multiple employers they also have a much better organization which offers some ability to defend the march to the bottom, even if they still have to continually fight off the aforementioned "anti-government" crowd.
Meanwhile, remember that the chart is a survey result - it reflects public perceptions, not realities (and perceptions only insofar as the methodology was sound, which I don't know).
Yeah, but the cognitive dissonance of the public tolerating greater pay for perceived lower contributing members of society should hopefully spur them from tacitly approving the status quo to actively engaging in shifting it to more accurately match their perceptions.
 
Good stuff hdrobert, I choked when he said psychologists. I heard a survey that in the USA about 54% still list themselves as regular church attendees. That means clergy have a huge roll.

I would like to see a number that regularly use the services of psychologists. I'm gonna guess. It's pretty small.

Whether or not you agree with clergy views, faith or methods, to say they contribute less is ludicrous. As for military don't we see them wherever there's a major disaster?
 
But they're doing so based on market standards that were established decades, sometimes centuries ago. We've not seen the kind of correction that allows professions that've historically attracted women to catch up to pay rates they deserve partly because society spends so much money overcompensating the bottom rungs of this list. ...

Yeah, but the cognitive dissonance of the public tolerating greater pay for perceived lower contributing members of society should hopefully spur them from tacitly approving the status quo to actively engaging in shifting it to more accurately match their perceptions.

What criteria is someone supposed to use to determine whether someone else is overpaid or underpaid? How do you know?

What information is that calculation to be based on? Where does this information come from? How is it better information than what the actual buyer and seller involved in the transaction have?

Is it to be based on uninvolved people's subjective opinions about what other people should pay for the things other people provide them?

If so, how could politicized, subjective, and distant perceptions of uninvolved people result in a more rational and more economically-sound decision, compared to allowing the people involved to make their own voluntary decisions and agreements about what to produce, what to buy, and what to pay for it all?
 
As far as the financial disparity, it's pretty obvious. Just market supply and demand. Far more military and teachers than lawyers. Not to mention, to join the military requires some paper work and bootcamp. To become a lawyer requires law school and a regulated exam. To become a financially viable lawyer on your own name requires many more years even.
 
To deal with the last thing first, the categories shown are obviously chosen to provoke discussions like the one on this thread, not to give a comprehensive survey of all occupations. There's no effort to represent all professions on this particular chart, if indeed the people surveyed were even asked about other occupations.

For the military, doubtless what survey respondents had in mind was not the infamous but abstract "military-industrial complex" but ordinary soldiers and vets, whom people have much more concrete familiarity with. Those guys put their lives on the line for what they believe to be the security of their countrymen, for peanuts in terms of a paycheck.

Clergy vs. artists isn't hard to figure out at all. The bulk of people in the US are religious to some extent, and they have experienced the clergy being there for them to baptize their babies, to marry them, to visit them in the hospital, to bury their dead, and to counsel and pray for them through all the stress and troubles that accompany these life events. The average minister has about the same education as the average lawyer and gets paid a fraction of what the lawyer does. This day-to-day reality of people's interaction with the clergy, which is largely invisible in the media, struggles in public perception with headline scandals, which get SO much attention precisely because they DO violate so egregiously the actual norms of religious life.

Artists, meanwhile - are not there at people's sickbeds. Most of what one hears from society's "artists" are very self-absorbed egotists who have very little interest in how their art serves society at large, very little understanding or sympathy for ordinary folk, and a strong sense of entitlement that just making some BS and labeling it "art" entitles them to public support.

Actually... you have some good points there and it makes me wonder about the real value of such professions. Although, the reason why I don't hold military or clergy in such high regard is because: a) I don't live in the US, ergo I can't really say about the American view of such professions, b) just simple idealism: to me, religion and war has done more damage than good overall, but to each their own; maybe the history books have it wrong.
 
Gallup lists this one: (I hope none of you are car salesmen)

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Nursing wins this one as well:

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Things are pretty similar in Oz according to Reader's Digest, although paramedics and firefighters top this list, as they do most of the others I saw:

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I have been a medic/firefighter since I was 18, and am now in nursing school. I've always been a trustworthy person and so have the medics and nurses I've worked with, so it's pretty accurate from my experiences.
 
Military? Are you kidding me?

And clergy contribute more than artists? What kind of results are these? I may agree with the rest, but not with the military and the clergy. To me, to be honest, they do little to improve society.

I'm always amazed at those who live in a free country who criticize the military. Who do you think protects your freedom? What would happen if the military ceased to exist?