Movin' on up! (from 4- to 5- string)

[DJ Bebop]

Movin' on up!​

Sorry, couldn’t help myself



For me, I was looking for a 5 string in the 90’s. Not too many I found in stores that felt good to me. Ended up ordering one from Carvin and found it was the string spacing was the issue. I liked the 19mm spacing of the Carvin vs the local offerings.

Anyway while it was coming I realized I really didn’t have any experience with 5 strings other than plucking around on them in a store setting. So I was worried I got into something that I wouldn’t be able to adapt to.

Fears were dispelled after I got it. All I had to do was play it for a few days. It gave me 5 lower note than E, plus up higher I access to notes in closed positions that I didn’t have to slide down the neck to get. I was surprised how quickly I had adapted to it. I didn’t have to put my abundance of 4’s away. It was just a matter of playing it and becoming comfortable with it. I have two now, the Carvin Bunny Brunel 5 and a new one thanks to my wife, a Harley Benton multi-scale 5. Which to my surprise didn’t take much time adapting to either

The only thing I would think anyone would have to decide is, is the neck width and string spacing something one can get use to.

 

[DJ Bebop]

give me a list of the world's top ten bass players who learned by using tabs. point is, you don't LEARN anything from this method it's pointless. the bass is in your hands already. use your ears. The leaning Spanish analogy is a poor one. With this logic then, you should LEARN to READ music, not tabs

I can think of a few that don’t read music at all

One that comes to mind because he had been in our bass news lately…

Oh, and dis old bugger…

 

[Gopherbassist]

give me a list of the world's top ten bass players who learned by using tabs. point is, you don't LEARN anything from this method it's pointless. the bass is in your hands already. use your ears. The leaning Spanish analogy is a poor one. With this logic then, you should LEARN to READ music, not tabs

Billy Sheehan doesn't read music. I'm sure he's read a tab or two in his day. But I guess he doesn't know anything about playing bass.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Billy Sheehan doesn't read music. I'm sure he's read a tab or two in his day. But I guess he doesn't know anything about playing bass.

That's right, and he doesn't do "floating thumb" either. Watch his video about how to play 3 finger plucking fast, he says he always stays anchored, usually on a pickup, and his thumb has the callous to prove it!

I get it, if you want to play other people's music or gig with lots of different bands, or a big band, or a classical arrangement, you better know how to read. For the casual bassist who headlines a bedroom there are other ways to go.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

Playing 55 years with around a dozen on 5's but my skills were developed on 4's. Made a conscious decision to drop the 5's a couple of years back as they dropped my improvisation skills.

But that's me and I would still recomme d a newish player to stay with a 5, but listen to 4 string players in terms of the interesting lines they add to a song. The point being, don't be a root note strummer, the worst of the worst bass players. Keep pushing yourself to develop basslines that compliment the melodies and stay with the drummer.

That's a very interesting point. For instance, there's a lot I really like about Phil Lesh's playing when he was playing a 4 string and after he moved to a 5, it seemed less interesting. Of course, there are exceptions but I also noticed that in my playing, so I've worked to overcome it. But, I am playing 4 and 6 strings interchangeably these days.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I can think of a few that don’t read music at all

For some reason, I think this is true of Jimmy Johnson as well. However, I think it's less true of bassists coming up today. If you don't read music, you either have to be in a successful band or be such a wonderfully idiosyncratic player that people just want you for who you are. Or just playing for fun without any professional aspirations. There are lots of good reasons to be able to read and not any that I can think of not to.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Billy Sheehan doesn't read music. I'm sure he's read a tab or two in his day. But I guess he doesn't know anything about playing bass.

we're not talking about reading music; we're talking about learning songs via tabulature. Billy Sheehan, Pino Palladino, and Paul McCartney didn't become legends from learning basslines from tabs.

 

[TomB]

That's a very interesting point. For instance, there's a lot I really like about Phil Lesh's playing when he was playing a 4 string and after he moved to a 5, it seemed less interesting. Of course, there are exceptions but I also noticed that in my playing, so I've worked to overcome it. But, I am playing 4 and 6 strings interchangeably these days.

Edwin, that’s interesting! … and I’ve never heard that observation before. I swear my playing on a 5 is the same as on a four but way easier. Now I’m going to have to check .

 

[TomB]

Edwin, that’s interesting! … and I’ve never heard that observation before. I swear my playing on a 5 is the same as on a four but way easier. Now I’m going to have to check .

PS - well ok, I definitely use low E on the B string more on the 5 than I would an open E string. …is your point proved?

 

[Gopherbassist]

we're not talking about reading music; we're talking about learning songs via tabulature. Billy Sheehan, Pino Palladino, and Paul McCartney didn't become legends from learning basslines from tabs.

So what exactly is your point?

 

[Smooth_bass88]

So what exactly is your point?

my point exactly is that it's a waste of time to look at "tabs". Instead, use your ears.

 

[DJ Bebop]

For some reason, I think this is true of Jimmy Johnson as well. However, I think it's less true of bassists coming up today. If you don't read music, you either have to be in a successful band or be such a wonderfully idiosyncratic player that people just want you for who you are. Or just playing for fun without any professional aspirations. There are lots of good reasons to be able to read and not any that I can think of not to.

I believe Jimmy to be a reader.
Studio work is a different animal from working in a band. Still you had folks like Glen Campbell who didn’t read and did fine.

Even at that, once you play a lot and become familiar with the way western music operates and sounds. It is easy to fall into playing by ear, hearing where something is going in a particular style that one is familiar with without the use of sheet music.

The Beatles as an example. Not readers, but familiar with the popular music of their parents time which followed music theory. They could hear the relationship of chords to one another, and the theory that made it work.

 

[konaaayukeeenee]

my point exactly is that it's a waste of time to look at "tabs". Instead, use your ears.

I agree that it's best to use your ears. But I'd also argue that not everyone has the time or inclination to learn everything by ear, and in that case, it's perfectly fine to use tabs.

 

[BassicJazzy]

my point exactly is that it's a waste of time to look at "tabs". Instead, use your ears.

Yes, I was always an ears player. When I restarted I went back to ground zero and learned scales, patterns, theory, etc. I still rely on my ears and what's built in my fingers and muscle memory more than what I see in tab, or even what I hear when parroting a line. I will agree with you on one point, tab doesn't teach you rhythm or how to accentuate or syncopate, but it does open up different ways of fingering notes than what you might learn by playing patterns. Therefore it has value. I will make one other point before I shut up forever (eh, probably not) on this subject - - I have seen players who could play perfectly to notation but could not improvise a single lick. Played like machines. Since I learned by ear improv has never been difficult for me. All I'm saying....

 

[edwinhurwitz]

The Beatles as an example. Not readers, but familiar with the popular music of their parents time which followed music theory. They could hear the relationship of chords to one another, and the theory that made it work.

I remember someone a decade or two ago describing how he was hanging out at Paul McCartney's house and listened to him take an hour to work out a ii-V progression. They definitely became very harmonically proficient but it appears they did spend time reinventing the wheel.

 

[BassicJazzy]

I remember someone a decade or two ago describing how he was hanging out at Paul McCartney's house and listened to him take an hour to work out a ii-V progression. They definitely became very harmonically proficient but it appears they did spend time reinventing the wheel.

We all reinvent the wheel every day, if we are lucky. Sometimes mine is a square. Few (none) of us end up being a Beatle.

It's interesting the way bands like Yes and Genesis approached their compositions. They just played for days on end, taped everything, and selected the segments that sounded good, knitted them into great prog compositions. Of course those bands could also play their stuff live. I think the Beatles did something similar with Apple, but the genius was in knowing what to keep and what to throw away and how to join it all up, mix it, to make it great. Pretty good for a bunch of 20 year olds.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

We all reinvent the wheel every day, if we are lucky. Sometimes mine is a square. Few (none) of us end up being a Beatle.

It's interesting the way bands like Yes and Genesis approached their compositions. They just played for days on end, taped everything, and selected the segments that sounded good, knitted them into great prog compositions. Of course those bands could also play their stuff live. I think the Beatles did something similar with Apple, but the genius was in knowing what to keep and what to throw away and how to join it all up, mix it, to make it great. Pretty good for a bunch of 20 year olds.

George Martin was a key player in that process.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I believe Jimmy to be a reader.
Studio work is a different animal from working in a band. Still you had folks like Glen Campbell who didn’t read and did fine.

I have another friend named Jimmy who is a keyboard player. He's a fantastic musician and doesn't read. We did a show with a symphony orchestra doing arrangements of Motown tunes. We met with the conductor/arranger to go over the songs a couple of weeks before the show. He had given us recordings made from his arranging software so we could practice with the parts. It turned out that just by listening to the recordings of cheesy soft-synths that Jimmy knew the arrangements better than the guy who did them! I miss playing with that guy.

 

[Aussie Player]

Billy Sheehan doesn't read music. I'm sure he's read a tab or two in his day. But I guess he doesn't know anything about playing bass.

Tabs are relatively new or may even be coloquial to some degree.I have never seen one nor been offered one in 55 years playing.
Learning to play by ear was "the" way when I started. Even tried taking lessions and found my teacher more interested in what I'd learned by ear, the songs being more advanced than his teaching level. Sheet music back then was all piano, in the wrong keys and didn't include guitar solo's or bass guitar riffs so wasn't much use.

In defence of reading (which I obviously can't) some of my influence could as they transferred to bass, Andy Fraser, Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, John Paul Jones, the best of the best and yet so different in their styles and choice of notes.

It just means there is no best way, only the they way you can personally relate to.

 

[Gopherbassist]

Tabs are relatively new or may even be coloquial to some degree.I have never seen one nor been offered one in 55 years playing.
Learning to play by ear was "the" way when I started. Even tried taking lessions and found my teacher more interested in what I'd learned by ear, the songs being more advanced than his teaching level. Sheet music back then was all piano, in the wrong keys and didn't include guitar solo's or bass guitar riffs so wasn't much use.

In defence of reading (which I obviously can't) some of my influence could as they transferred to bass, Andy Fraser, Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, John Paul Jones, the best of the best and yet so different in their styles and choice of notes.

It just means there is no best way, only the they way you can personally relate to.

Music tablature has been around since the 1600s and was the primary way that guitar music was communicated for several hundred years.