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mtd 535 cut through the mix?

#21
johnbkim93 said:
Thanks for your opinions,
So if i turn the pre amp or use a good bass D.I. would mtd be able to cut through the mix?
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There is a gain pot inside the control cavity that allows you to set the "hotness" of the signal. Mike usually sets it fairly low. But that pot is not an EQ. My EQ is usually flat with a slight bump in the mids - but it depends on the bass. No D.I. required.
 
#23
johnbkim93 said:
Thanks for your opinions,
So if i turn the pre amp or use a good bass D.I. would mtd be able to cut through the mix?
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I think so. I'm not saying MTD's sound bad, or can't get a good mix. They are excellent basses. Just that in my experience, some types of basses cut through better than others. For me, my basses with Bartolini pups/pre were more difficult than my J's in large venues. I've also played them, seen then in action, and talked to other guys who use them and found that most guys seem to have similar experiences when comparing J's to their MTD's. plus, this is all subjective based on my experience and preferences, how I 'hear' a mix.

As for the DI, I've been using an EDEN WTDI and like it pretty well. There are lots out there that are great, try searching for one that suits your taste. Even the best sounding bass can sound lifeless running through a flat, non-bass specific DI. For me, using a Countryman DI (commonly used for mics and acoustic guitars and found at churches everywhere ;) sounds really flat next to a nice bass DI.
 
#24
Honestly though, I really don't see you having any problems with an MTD. The differences I noticed in live settings between the various basses took me a long time to figure out, so the differences can be fairly subtle. Playing in the same places with the same guys, hearing the same compliments and complaints about my tone really hammered into my head what basses worked better than others.
 
#25
Lucky Strike said:
Is the J-bass passive and the Ibanez active?

My Carvins and Nordys were all active, as were my Roscoe and Sukop and Spectors. Yet the Carvin and Nordy both cut through much better for whatever reason. Very well could have been the pre-amps.
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Both active - Fender Jazz 24 and Soundgear 706. The Fender came stock with Duncan Basslines. I've found that it sits much better in the mix when I apply a small boost to the low mids, which my Bartolini-equipped Ibanez has in spades.
 
#28
If your looking at an MTD budget range then you could easily get a Ken Smith. I guarantee you'll be cutting through the mix with that and you'll have tons of tonal option too. Not to mention that KS basses have had a solid reputation in the gospel, hip-hop, soul and jazz scene for many years.
 
#29
Munjibunga said:
I think the Norm Stockton Signature would be the bass for what you want. He was at BSD Thursday night, but he was playing a 535. There was no mix to cut through, per se, but it sounded pretty mid rich for a 535. His sig model is designed to bridge the gap between a J bass and the 535, tone-wise.
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Do you mean his latest Saratoga signature model?

It sounds very similar to the current MTD lines to my ears. Even a Saratoga with the J/J configuration doesn't sound very "J-colored" by the way.

Oh, to answer the OP's question, an MTD 535 does cut through the mix very well—I even play hardrock music with it. ;)
 
#30
IMHO, it has nothing to do with the electronics (or the gain knob). It's all about the wood.

I've owned three MTD's. With two of them, I had a terrible time being heard. Sure, I could make it work but it took a lot of work with eq. And then it would change every song.

My current MTD I had made specifically to be heard in the mix. Mike picked the woods and hit a home run. This bass is plug and play. Set it up for the room once and it's good all night. It's as easy to use as a P bass.
 
#31
LeonD said:
IMHO, it has nothing to do with the electronics (or the gain knob). It's all about the wood.

I've owned three MTD's. With two of them, I had a terrible time being heard. Sure, I could make it work but it took a lot of work with eq. And then it would change every song.

My current MTD I had made specifically to be heard in the mix. Mike picked the woods and hit a home run. This bass is plug and play. Set it up for the room once and it's good all night. It's as easy to use as a P bass.
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It's a combination of a lot of things. This entire bass line is voiced a bit 'wide and scooped' due to the unique voicing of the active barts, the tweaks on the preamp, the pickup spacing (with the bridge pickup VERY close to the bridge).

The electronics, even when set 'neutral' have a strong voice built in, and the basses put out a LOT of sub bass and upper treble, which can REALLY cause some issues in a live setting (especially with front of house guys used to mixing Fenders, Laklands, etc.... more traditionally voiced basses).

+1 Though, that wood combinations can help (or hurt). To the OP, stay away from ebony boards and/or wenge necks for example, which really bring out the wide, somewhat scooped 'boom and sizzle'. I'd stay away from ash necks also. If you get an MTD with a maple neck, a rosewood or maple board, and some sort of ash or alder body, that does tend to bring in the top and bottom a bit, and be more workable for those who don't particularly want the uber modern, wide, massive low end and upper treble sizzle these basses are known for. I gigged an ash/wenge model for years, and while it often sounded great, I fought with it, and most front of house guys were unimpressed.

There is a reason the gospel guys seem to love these basses. if you are into that 'boom and click' slap tone, these basses will totally deliver. To the OP, if you like that 'big bart soapbar' classic tone, but want lots of midrange punch, the Roscoe basses are kind of the mirror image of the MTD's..... same amazing woodwork, fit and finish and quality, 35" scale and aggressive Bart preamp, but with a pickup placement and voicing that emphasizes pretty much the opposite frequencies as the MTD. Both bass lines sounds great, and 'do what they do', but if you are more interested in low mid punch and articulation, the Roscoe's are quite impressive. They also have a strong tonal personality, regardless of wood choice, but it is a punchy, mid present personality (similar to the Sadowsky Modern... another good option, and somewhat like a 'warmer, more organic Ken Smith tone). Just FYI.
 
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#32
gzarate85 said:
If your looking at an MTD budget range then you could easily get a Ken Smith. I guarantee you'll be cutting through the mix with that and you'll have tons of tonal option too. Not to mention that KS basses have had a solid reputation in the gospel, hip-hop, soul and jazz scene for many years.
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Ken smith is an awesome bass but I think the ken smith tone is so unique that its not that versatile. I also want the nice slap tone of the mtd and you know?
 
#33
KJung said:
It's a combination of a lot of things. This entire bass line is voiced a bit 'wide and scooped' due to the unique voicing of the active barts, the tweaks on the preamp, the pickup spacing (with the bridge pickup VERY close to the bridge).

The electronics, even when set 'neutral' have a strong voice built in, and the basses put out a LOT of sub bass and upper treble, which can REALLY cause some issues in a live setting (especially with front of house guys used to mixing Fenders, Laklands, etc.... more traditionally voiced basses).

+1 Though, that wood combinations can help (or hurt). To the OP, stay away from ebony boards and/or wenge necks for example, which really bring out the wide, somewhat scooped 'boom and sizzle'. I'd stay away from ash necks also. If you get an MTD with a maple neck, a rosewood or maple board, and some sort of ash or alder body, that does tend to bring in the top and bottom a bit, and be more workable for those who don't particularly want the uber modern, wide, massive low end and upper treble sizzle these basses are known for. I gigged an ash/wenge model for years, and while it often sounded great, I fought with it, and most front of house guys were unimpressed.

There is a reason the gospel guys seem to love these basses. if you are into that 'boom and click' slap tone, these basses will totally deliver. To the OP, if you like that 'big bart soapbar' classic tone, but want lots of midrange punch, the Roscoe basses are kind of the mirror image of the MTD's..... same amazing woodwork, fit and finish and quality, 35" scale and aggressive Bart preamp, but with a pickup placement and voicing that emphasizes pretty much the opposite frequencies as the MTD. Both bass lines sounds great, and 'do what they do', but if you are more interested in low mid punch and articulation, the Roscoe's are quite impressive. They also have a strong tonal personality, regardless of wood choice, but it is a punchy, mid present personality (similar to the Sadowsky Modern... another good option, and somewhat like a 'warmer, more organic Ken Smith tone). Just FYI.
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I love roscoe bass and the low mid punch of it. But I also want that slap tone the MTD gives. I do want the low mid but also the boom and sizzle. So thats my concern cutting through the mix.
 
#34
johnbkim93 said:
I love roscoe bass and the low mid punch of it. But I also want that slap tone the MTD gives. I do want the low mid but also the boom and sizzle. So thats my concern cutting through the mix.
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Both bass lines can get you there, it is just a matter of the inherent tone of the instrument. The Roscoe basses in their 'stock passive Bart soapbar' configuration, and with that 'pickups stacked pretty close to the bridge' design, will inherently pump up the mid range, while still providing nice 'Bartolini ping' in the upper treble, and also nice deep bass. The very custom MTD active Bart soaps, spaced a bit more widely (with the neck pickup being close to P position, and the bridge pickup being kind of '70's J or even closer to the bridge) brings out more deep bass and upper treble. Just depends what you want.

You can make each line of basses sound a bit closer by using the semi-parametric mids on each preamp to, in the MTD case, bump up 250 a bit, or in the Roscoe case, soften 800 a bit, but both bass lines IMO 'sound like they do. However, especially with boost and cut active midrange controls, I always found them to result in a bit of a 'playing the preamp' experience (i.e., a bit electronic and un-natural sounding, probably due to the relatively narrow Q of those circuits... you get a bit of that 'peak with valleys around it' sort of experience.

I dig the more midrange slap tone on the Roscoe's myself, since there is still plenty of 'hi fi top end, but that wide, huge, scooped MTD slap is a thing of beauty also. Interestingly, one of the things I never liked about the Roscoe's was that super small body of the original models. Their 'Century body' is VERY similar to the MTD body.

That being said, an MTD with a more traditional body and neck/board combination might be a nice recipe for you if your heart is set on an MTD.

IMO, and lot of IME on this one:)
 
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#35
johnbkim93 said:
I love roscoe bass and the low mid punch of it. But I also want that slap tone the MTD gives. I do want the low mid but also the boom and sizzle. So thats my concern cutting through the mix.
Click to expand...

I haven't shared KJung's experience with wenge-necked MTDs. Of the four I've owned all sat well in a mix (although one of those was considerably "darker" sounding than the others). As for sound guys - half of them don't know what to do with a bass in the first place. I've had just as many issues with FOH guys not being able to handle my Sadowsky and Sadowsky pre equipped basses as I have had with guys not being able to deal with my MTDs. From what you are saying, OP, I'd suggest a traditional wood combination of alder/maple/rosewood. Or just talk to Mike directly and see what he has to say.

Edit: I've never gigged a Roscoe but the two I tried out in a shop were very nice instruments.
 
#36
KJung said:
It's a combination of a lot of things. This entire bass line is voiced a bit 'wide and scooped' due to the unique voicing of the active barts, the tweaks on the preamp, the pickup spacing (with the bridge pickup VERY close to the bridge).

The electronics, even when set 'neutral' have a strong voice built in, and the basses put out a LOT of sub bass and upper treble, which can REALLY cause some issues in a live setting (especially with front of house guys used to mixing Fenders, Laklands, etc.... more traditionally voiced basses).
Click to expand...

IMO, a lot of the modern sound in the electronics is due to cranking up the gain control. I found the electronics to be much more neutral with the gain set low.

I feel the beauty of an MTD is the versatility depending on how the bass is spec'd. By going with a warmer body wood, 34" scale, nickel strings and keeping the gain down, you'll end up with a less modern sounding MTD. One that possibly sits in the mix better. :bassist:
 
#37
LeonD said:
IMO, a lot of the modern sound in the electronics is due to cranking up the gain control. I found the electronics to be much more neutral with the gain set low.

I feel the beauty of an MTD is the versatility depending on how the bass is spec'd. By going with a warmer body wood, 34" scale, nickel strings and keeping the gain down, you'll end up with a less modern sounding MTD. One that possibly sits in the mix better. :bassist:
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Interesting. I've never found a pure gain change at a preamp to really impact tone, assuming you are setting the input gain on the amp/board correctly. My Roscoe sounds the same at all gain settings. I just set the output of the on-board pre to match my other basses.

Anyway, yes, wood does matter;), and you can get some pretty punchy, fat MTD performance out of the more traditional wood choices for body, neck and board.
 
#39
KJung said:
Interesting. I've never found a pure gain change at a preamp to really impact tone, assuming you are setting the input gain on the amp/board correctly. My Roscoe sounds the same at all gain settings. I just set the output of the on-board pre to match my other basses.
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I agree the different gain has a minimal impact with the bass's eq flat. I noticed the biggest change was when I started using the eq. With the gain up, the eq seemed to get more extreme. Where for me, a lot of the boost or cut was unusable.

With the gain low, the entire sweep of the eq became viable giving me more useable tones.

All that said, this is going for more of a standard, vintage style tone. If you want modern, crank the gain, crank the eq and slice & dice till your ears bleed. :eek: :smug:
 

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