mtd 535 cut through the mix?

[bass12]

Are there any clips of Andrew Gouche playing a jazz instead of an MTD?

I get the impression that he is such an awesome player, he would sound just as good, if not better, playing a 70s style ash/maple jazz.

Well, there's not much point in talking about "better". Gouché, I'm sure, sounds the way he wants to sound and that's that. But since we're talking about Fender's (by extension - I know there are lots of Jazz basses out there) I have to say that the basses I've heard getting "lost in the mix" the most have been Precisions.

 

[christoph h.]

Yes, there are a few clips where he's playing a 5-string jazz-style bass from Performance Guitars in LA...

Here's one:

 

[JPMcGuire]

Here is my mtd 635 with wenge/wenge neck and a mahogany body with redwood top. Cuts through with a modern type smoothness. I like it for finger style and chordal/solo pieces. I prefer my fbass bn5 ash/maple for funk/slap and more aggressive rock. Between the too basses I can really cover just about anything. Both pair well to my rig: bergantino hs410 with a thunderfunk 800b2.



I don't hear much about the mtd wood combo I have with wenge and mahogany. Anyone else have experience with this combo and how it compares in the mtd wood choice spectrum?

 

[xabicho]

I have owned several MTD 535's and MTD 635's and they are great basses but the IMPO the Bart preamp left me desiring more mid range, great lows and highs but missing the meat on the midrange. I am always wonder how an MTD 535 will sound with a brass bridge, Aero pickups and a Mike Pope preamp. Anybody try this? I tried a MTD 535 with Aguilar pickups at the NAAM and they sound great, also owned a 635 with Aero pickups and Audere preamp, this was a beast animal very organic. Ash body, ash neck and maple fingerboard don't remember the top but it was an amazing bass with nice mid's that cut thru the mix.

 

[LeonD]

I'd be curious to know what the body woods were on the basses that didn't cut.

I think with MTD's, the preamp is fairly transparent. If you're not hear mids, I'd look more at the woods than the electronics.

 

[xabicho]

Several ones, let me try to remember, Norm Stockton, Tulipwood body-Maple Neck-Rosewood fingerboard, Alder Body-Maple Flamed Top-Maple Neck-Wenge Fingerboard, few of the ones I remember,

 

[LeonD]

Are you saying the Alder Body-Maple Flamed Top-Maple Neck-Wenge Fingerboard bass didn't cut thru the mix? With that wood combination, I'd think it would.

 

[TVbass]

I'd be curious to know what the body woods were on the basses that didn't cut.

I think with MTD's, the preamp is fairly transparent. If you're not hear mids, I'd look more at the woods than the electronics.

I have a 634 Roasted Ash/Maple Burl Wenge/Wenge...somewhat Jazz-bass-like warmth with focused mids. Lots of bottom and bright highs. I'm currently using DR Fat Beams Light gauge.

I can tell there is a volume difference from the lower strings to higher. So I'm going to try a couple of things.

1) change to med gauge strings
2) add a bass DI and compressor


My band mate (B3 Hammond Organ player) has complained that he looses me on the A strings and higher. And when I compensate then I'm overbearing on the E & B strings.

 

[JPMcGuire]

Compressor. Like a Cali76 will do the trick. Also try abit of distortion too. Will help it sit right in the mix

I have a 634 Roasted Ash/Maple Burl Wenge/Wenge...somewhat Jazz-bass-like warmth with focused mids. Lots of bottom and bright highs. I'm currently using DR Fat Beams Light gauge.

I can tell there is a volume difference from the lower strings to higher. So I'm going to try a couple of things.

1) change to med gauge strings
2) add a bass DI and compressor


My band mate (B3 Hammond Organ player) has complained that he looses me on the A strings and higher. And when I compensate then I'm overbearing on the E & B strings.

 

[bucephylus]

Holy thread resurrection.

First of all, Mike is now building instruments with different kinds of preamps and pickups; so, there is no one answer on what an MTD is going to sound like.

Second, the MUCH bigger issue with how the bass guitar sits in the mix is what the sound engineer decides to do with the mix. Take, for example, the vid clip that @JPMcGuire posted in post #123 above. It will never cease to amaze me how SE’s will live mix the rhythm guitar wash over the bass. Lead guitar parts are obviously a different thing. But, if you listen to ABSOLUTELY ANY studio recording, the rhythm guitar parts are ALWAYS beneath the bass. Yet, in live mixes, you often get the opposite. So, then we are left debating how the bass guitar “cuts through the mix,” even though that isn’t actually the problem.

FWIW, YMMV

 

[bass12]

I have a 634 Roasted Ash/Maple Burl Wenge/Wenge...somewhat Jazz-bass-like warmth with focused mids. Lots of bottom and bright highs. I'm currently using DR Fat Beams Light gauge.

I can tell there is a volume difference from the lower strings to higher. So I'm going to try a couple of things.

1) change to med gauge strings
2) add a bass DI and compressor


My band mate (B3 Hammond Organ player) has complained that he looses me on the A strings and higher. And when I compensate then I'm overbearing on the E & B strings.

Have you experimented with adjusting the pickup heights? I have never had this issue with any of my MTDs but I have with other basses. To me a compressor is a Band-Aid solution, but I guess if you don't mind depending on one to get your desired tone/response (assuming it does the trick) then have at it. But yeah, the first thing I'd do is try lowering the pickups on the B string side (or raising the pickups on the G string side).

 

[TVbass]

Compressor. Like a Cali76 will do the trick. Also try abit of distortion too. Will help it sit right in the mix

You are right! And I saw where Norm was using a Tonehammer along with the compressor. But, I absolutely forgot about distortion. Thanks!

Holy thread resurrection.

First of all, Mike is now building instruments with different kinds of preamps and pickups; so, there is no one answer on what an MTD is going to sound like.

Second, the MUCH bigger issue with how the bass guitar sits in the mix is what the sound engineer decides to do with the mix. Take, for example, the vid clip that @JPMcGuire posted in post #123 above. It will never cease to amaze me how SE’s will live mix the rhythm guitar wash over the bass. Lead guitar parts are obviously a different thing. But, if you listen to ABSOLUTELY ANY studio recording, the rhythm guitar parts are ALWAYS beneath the bass. Yet, in live mixes, you often get the opposite. So, then we are left debating how the bass guitar “cuts through the mix,” even though that isn’t actually the problem.

FWIW, YMMV

Yeah!! I searched, and then read every single post on this topic. I figured that would be better than asking the same question as the OP, but in relation to a 634. And you are right. Mike does have an array of preamps + pickups at his disposal. Mine is using his proprietary Barts

Have you experimented with adjusting the pickup heights? I have never had this issue with any of my MTDs but I have with other basses. To me a compressor is a Band-Aid solution, but I guess if you don't mind depending on one to get your desired tone/response (assuming it does the trick) then have at it. But yeah, the first thing I'd do is try lowering the pickups on the B string side (or raising the pickups on the G string side).

No, didn't think to do that. This just might correct the issue from the core. I'm going to give this a try when I get home! Thanks for the suggestion!!

 

[bucephylus]

I have a 634 Roasted Ash/Maple Burl Wenge/Wenge...somewhat Jazz-bass-like warmth with focused mids. Lots of bottom and bright highs. I'm currently using DR Fat Beams Light gauge.

I can tell there is a volume difference from the lower strings to higher. So I'm going to try a couple of things.

1) change to med gauge strings
2) add a bass DI and compressor


My band mate (B3 Hammond Organ player) has complained that he looses me on the A strings and higher. And when I compensate then I'm overbearing on the E & B strings.

FWIW, I’m using Fodera Nickel Round Wounds on my Tobias Classic 6, and find those to be extremely well balanced. I would recommend those without hesitation.

When discussing the currently in progress 534 with Mike, he really let loose on DR’s, which I happen to like and use on my Fender-Sadowsky basses. Mike refuses to put them on a bass, mainly because some of his customer players have literally lost jobs attributable to the DR’s. I’m not sure what to think about that piece of info.

 

[bass12]

FWIW, I’m using Fodera Nickel Round Wounds on my Tobias Classic 6, and find those to be extremely well balanced. I would recommend those without hesitation.

When discussing the currently in progress 534 with Mike, he really let loose on DR’s, which I happen to like and use on my Fender-Sadowsky basses. Mike refuses to put them on a bass, mainly because some of his customer players have literally lost jobs attributable to the DR’s. I’m not sure what to think about that piece of info.

What do you mean by "lost jobs attributable to the DRs"?

 

[bucephylus]

What do you mean by "lost jobs attributable to the DRs"?

Mike told me that one of his main guys was tossed from a studio session because the bass had poor intonation; and they later traced it back to DR’s he had on the bass.

Just relating what he told me. I still use DR’s. I also don’t argue with Mike.

 

[bass12]

Mike told me that one of his main guys was tossed from a studio session because the bass had poor intonation; and they later traced it back to DR’s he had on the bass.

Just relating what he told me. I still use DR’s. I also don’t argue with Mike.

Wow. I suspect, though, that such a thing could happen with any string brand. Regardless, it's always good to show up to a session with more than one bass (or, at the very least, an extra set of strings!). It's funny, because the luthier I take my basses to in Montreal can't stand tapered strings (I use MTD strings on some of my basses - and they have tapered Bs). It seems like a lot of luthiers have very passionate opinions about such things.

 

[TVbass]

Mike told me that one of his main guys was tossed from a studio session because the bass had poor intonation; and they later traced it back to DR’s he had on the bass.

Just relating what he told me. I still use DR’s. I also don’t argue with Mike.

Well....I always tune before I play/rehearse. But I have noticed that there's no pattern with my DR strings' behavior. Some strings are sharp today, and then the same ones will be flat a few days later. Now, I assumed it was because Central VA's weather is inconsistent from day to day. Maybe not?

From my dealings with Michael Tobias, he hasn't routinely given me negative feedback on other companies or direct competitor's brands. He's extremely diplomatic and considerate. Now, I love the sound of the FAT Beams on my 634, especially the mediums. So, for him to say something with so much conviction, I have to take heed and pay attention.

 

[bucephylus]

Well....I always tune before I play/rehearse. But I have noticed that there's no pattern with my DR strings' behavior. Some strings are sharp today, and then the same ones will be flat a few days later. Now, I assumed it was because Central VA's weather is inconsistent from day to day. Maybe not?

From my dealings with Michael Tobias, he hasn't routinely given me negative feedback on other companies or direct competitor's brands. He's extremely diplomatic and considerate. Now, I love the sound of the FAT Beams on my 634, especially the mediums. So, for him to say something with so much conviction, I have to take heed and pay attention.

I too was a bit surprised at the level of conviction. Mike is a very thoughtful guy. He has my abiding respect. That said, I’m still using DR’s; but, this has me keeping an eye on things. I’m pretty pitch sensitive; so, not inclined to work with strings that don’t work.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I've had intonation problems with strings that were very old. I prefer well broken in strings that don't sound new and super bright. I have a number of bases and some have pretty old sets of strings and occasionally it seems they simply won't stay in tune. At that point I just toss and replace. I've also had a couple of odd experiences with DRs. I put on a set of the red ones whatever they are and they didn't sound good on a particular bass for some reason, and one set of DRs that were just weird for some reason and I took them off and just tossed.

 

[bucephylus]

I've had intonation problems with strings that were very old. I prefer well broken in strings that don't sound new and super bright. I have a number of bases and some have pretty old sets of strings and occasionally it seems they simply won't stay in tune. At that point I just toss and replace. I've also had a couple of odd experiences with DRs. I put on a set of the red ones whatever they are and they didn't sound good on a particular bass for some reason, and one set of DRs that were just weird for some reason and I took them off and just tossed.

+1

I too prefer my round wounds after a little of the zing is gone.

As to strings dying, my hypothesis about bass strings is that the hardened steel core becomes damaged at the microstructural level by the deformation at the bend over the bridge saddle. Once that starts in hardened steel, it just keeps going under load. Eventually that leads to distortion of the core to the point that you literally can not intonate the string any more by adjusting the scale length. Been there, done that.

There are theoretical bridge alternatives that could eliminate this, but no practical designs. So, we just live with it. And, you keep an eye on the intonation. If it heads south with the saddles remaining in position, then you have played past the point where you needed to replace the strings.

BTW, boiling strings does nothing to address the problem. The core would need to have been tempered with your particular bend in place; and that isn’t practical either. But, of course, it is a good idea to keep the strings clean.

FWIW, my $0.019, YMMV