"Muddy" tone, with no definition - help needed (TC amp content)

[friendlybass]

I've got a bad case of gas for a Fender Rumble 500 head/cabs even though I have absolutely no need for them. I guess that's the definition of 'gas' but it really is distracting.

At the risk of hijacking, the rumble v2 heads were much better tonewise IMO. I love the new eminence loaded cabs though thinking about getting 2 115's or 112's to go with my rumble 350.
To the OP, after reading about tc's smart eq I'm curious if at lower volumes youre getting clarity and when the amp is cranked it's going muddy

 

[raventepes]

I'm with whoever suggested changing your strings. Maybe try a different string entirely.

What are you using right now?

 

[13lues]

I have the same head, and I'm no "Golden Ear", but I haven't experienced anything like your problem. I can even dial mine in to be brittle and harsh if I wanted to (the opposite of muddy and boxy IMO). Amp mostly flat with a slight boost to the treble. Spectra Comp and Tube Drive at about 3. It gives me a nice warm, yet defined tone. I boost the treble a touch because I play with flats and it helps add a little definition.

 

[PetersReviews]

I have the same head and the EQ can give me all the top end I could ever want. I guess make sure you changed your battery if you have active electronics, set your bass flat or if it's passive with the tone knob all the way open and try a different cable. If you can, try a different bass on the head. If all of these fail, you might have a defective head. Good luck and let us know how everything turns out.

 

[PazzoBasso]

I have to agree with the OP - I struggle with my BH250's warm & wooly low end.

On its own & with some knob twiddling it can sound OK, but compared to my markbass lm2, Demeter vtbp, Jule Monique, EA I-amp 350 or Phil Jones gear - it's on the muddy side... Granted, I'm comparing it to some much more expensive gear & I did like its sound through my bergantino AE 410 (better than any other cab I've run it through), but I was hoping to pair it with a smaller cab for a mini rig & just haven't found a good match.

I suspect that the tone is just not my flavour - maybe not yours either.

The headphone out sounds nice to my ears - but that reduces it to a headphone amp. I really want to like it, maybe some cab recommendations/comparisons will help?

 

[Tagruvto]

I've found that the best way to diagnose a problem is to first identify the variables and then swap them out, one at a time.

It may very well be the amp head, easy to tell. If it has headphone outs, or a DI out, how do those sound?
How does your bass sound when played through another amp?
How does your speaker box sound, when powered by another head?
Borrow gear from your friends, if you don't have alternatives readily available. You can even use a guitar or keyboard amp in a pinch, just to
try things out( but watch your volume so you don't damage fragile speakers)

Good Luck and tell us what you uncover.

 

[13lues]

I have to agree with the OP - I struggle with my BH250's warm & wooly low end.

On its own & with some knob twiddling it can sound OK, but compared to my markbass lm2, Demeter vtbp, Jule Monique, EA I-amp 350 or Phil Jones gear - it's on the muddy side... Granted, I'm comparing it to some much more expensive gear & I did like its sound through my bergantino AE 410 (better than any other cab I've run it through), but I was hoping to pair it with a smaller cab for a mini rig & just haven't found a good match.

I suspect that the tone is just not my flavour - maybe not yours either.

The headphone out sounds nice to my ears - but that reduces it to a headphone amp. I really want to like it, maybe some cab recommendations/comparisons will help?

If you're looking for a mini rig, you might want to try the Ampeg 2x10 cab.

 

[PazzoBasso]

If you're looking for a mini rig, you might want to try the Ampeg 2x10 cab.

Yeah - I've thought about the little Ampeg's a few times - just based on how cool they look. I have a killer mini rig (Monique Peamp on top of a Phil Jones PB-300). But more stuff is always fun.

 

[Toddbass65]

I have the combo and the BH800.........I find if the gain at far left is too high it will distort quickly and kill the tone..........for me.
try backing off the gain more than what they suggest or what you would usually do. Just boost the main volume more than usual.
I find the volume doesn't really kick on the head until around 6-7 for some reason. It is not unilateral.
just something to try - maybe it helps.

 

[PazzoBasso]

I have the combo and the BH800.........I find if the gain at far left is too high it will distort quickly and kill the tone..........for me.
try backing off the gain more than what they suggest or what you would usually do. Just boost the main volume more than usual.
I find the volume doesn't really kick on the head until around 6-7 for some reason. It is not unilateral.
just something to try - maybe it helps.

Dang - you got me excited to try turning the gain down - but the BH 250 has only a master volume (and a gain toggle for active /passive).

 

[Alexander]

I've never played through that exact head. But I do find that TC products sound good solo - I've struggled to get a decent live tone. My results are similar to yours...

 

[static0verdrive]

I doubt you need new gear. Talkbass has issues with TC but the head itself should work. I will reiterate that Mike Watt sounded amazing with his TC.

Have you tried turning down the mids? I would look into how you must have the knobs in order to have a flat frequency response (what I mean by that is some amps have baked in EQ, and to go back to flat you need to adjust them in a way you might not expect - look up how to do so with your model). Start with those settings, and adjust minimally from there. I used to boost and cut like a madman but there's little reason to - EQ should repair tone, not create it.

 

[static0verdrive]

A couple of other things came to mind - I'm guess you made sure the tone knob was up hehe...

• Is the bass active? If so, tried a new battery?
• Is your bridge pickup at the proper height?
• Have you tried a lighter gauge of string? (They're a little brighter)
• Tried stainless steels?
• Roundwounds?

OP your post described my P-bass with flats tone exactly. The above and my previous post is how I fixed it.

 

[PazzoBasso]

I doubt you need new gear. Talkbass has issues with TC but the head itself should work. I will reiterate that Mike Watt sounded amazing with his TC.

Have you tried turning down the mids? I would look into how you must have the knobs in order to have a flat frequency response (what I mean by that is some amps have baked in EQ, and to go back to flat you need to adjust them in a way you might not expect - look up how to do so with your model). Start with those settings, and adjust minimally from there. I used to boost and cut like a madman but there's little reason to - EQ should repair tone, not create it.

I Agree. Does anyone know what settings would be considered flat?

 

[13lues]

I Agree. Does anyone know what settings would be considered flat?

flat is at 12 0'clock on the bass, mids, and treble. If that's what you're asking. To get it more in line with how most other amps sound with those settings you will need to back the bass off to about 11. The TC is a little bass heavy at it's own "flat"

 

[PazzoBasso]

flat is at 12 0'clock on the bass, mids, and treble. If that's what you're asking.

That could be true for some amps - but not always the case. Is everything @ 12 o'clock confirmed as flat for the BH 250?

 

[AndyLES]

Hi folks,

Wow! Thanks for all the help.

To clarify..

- My bass is passive (listed in the OP) with new roundwound strings (D'Addarios). Tone, volume, full up. I pretty much only use the P Pickup.

- Tried several different cables....even a wireless, for comparison's sake!!! :-O

- This is the BH250, which only has the three-band EQ and no gain control.

- The various drive and compressor Toneprints help a little, but not much. Honestly, the toneprints as a whole, including the FX ones, don't sound that great to my ears, and they don't compare AT ALL to analog stompboxes. Ahhh, the age-old debate, I guess...

- If I cut the mids, I lose the boxiness, but then I still have the booming low end and very little actual treble. The sound still sounds blanketed and dull.

- When I dime the treble, it sounds like a tweeter clipping. Ugh.

I don't have access to other cabs (I don't own a cab; carrying one around the NYC subway system is impractical, owning a car to drive one in is cost prohibitive, and most clubs here insist you use the house cab anyway to cut down on turnaround time between acts). I decided to try a little experiment; I ran the direct out through a cheapo mixer, and out of the mono line out of the mixer into a Tech 21 Power Engine 60, a clean power-amp combo designed for running preamps and whatnot without coloration.

I got substantially less boominess and congestion in the mids, but still a dull top end (albeit not as dull as running it through an 8x10).

I was hoping to run the amp this week without any pedals, but I've found that adding some top end dirt and harmonics from a BDDI helps. Also, the BDDI's inherent midscoop dials out the PRECISE frequency of the honkiness. So, I guess this is what I'll have to do for the time being. :-/

 

[AndyLES]

To the OP, after reading about tc's smart eq I'm curious if at lower volumes youre getting clarity and when the amp is cranked it's going muddy

It's pretty blah at all volumes, unfortunately.

 

[AndyLES]

Just a thought, maybe the BDDI has enough gain to feed into the AUX on the back and avoid the TCE preamp?

I might try this....

 

[Low Class]

Just a few days ago I heard a BH250 through a TC RS410 cab and sounded amazing.