Double Bass Murder, then burn, your Real Book...

[damonsmith]

Great post, thanks! Lee Konitz, a favorite straight ahead player of mine, also advocates going deep on a smaller number of tunes rather than amassing a huge rep.

Back when I started (in the mid 70's), you had to have the vinyl recording of a tune, or know someone who did - and would lend it to you (good luck!), as it was not po$$ible to own a version(s) of every tune that you wanted and needed to play. So, the Real Book was a useful, though sloppy and inaccurate, tool - as I soon found out.
These days, a version, or multiple versions, of a tune can be accessed in a matter of seconds, (for Free), so there is a real learning opportunity for musicians to access and hear a version of a tune that actually "exists"...unlike so many of the RB fiascos that do NOT exist, and are simply WRONG. For instance: there was no version of Dolphin Dance, (that I'm aware of), with the many ERRORS and Omissions (Wrong Pedal points, wrong changes, etc.) that existed prior to the RB publication. The RB's 4 bars of pedal "B" instead of a pedal "E" is NOT an "arrangement"... it is plain Wrong. (Yeah...I said it!)
The first chord of Blue In Green is Gmin6 9, and calling it "Bbmaj7 #11" is NOT an "arrangement".
The missing 4 bars in the bridge of Desafinado is NOT an "arrangement".
I could go on.
My problem with the RB, is NOT the Key of Autumn Leaves, (I agree - it's solid and it's correct), but rather, the many Errors and Omissions due to unqualified "transcribers" (I'm using this term very generously), and the obvious lack of any oversight, editing, or proofing by qualified/actual musicians. It's not even funny that this was (apparently?) used as a textbook.
My solution?
Use the RB or any other book or chart, to compare with an actual recording - make (many!) corrections to your RB, and begin transcribing specific versions of tunes that are NOT in the RB. Can't hear changes well? Spend some time with the pianist or guitarist in your group - they are always further along Harmonically than most bassists. Find a pianist or guitarist to take some lessons with - not for your bassplaying, but for your Harmonic awareness and Harmonic ear-training.
Given the amount of easy access and technological advances these days - (there is a thing called a "....Slow Downer", apparently?), there is no longer any excuse for folks to be using AND "learning" lame or stock or wrong changes.
We all talk about improvised music being "of the moment" and "creatively free", but if you can't hear the sound of what is actually present on a recording, (a recording that you can analyze/stop/slow down/listen to... over and over), what makes you think that you'll be able to function "creatively" "of the moment" in a live situation?
I would much rather hear someone play who has listened to, immersed themselves in, written up, and studied 10 tunes, than someone who has downloaded 2800 generic (or worse!) charts of tunes on an iPad. (Yes - the "easy access" IS a double-edged sword, as is most technology. Hey - I'm not an Amish Luddite.)
If anyone is wondering if this is " the Hill I Want to Die On...", the answer is Yes.
Thanks for your time and interest, Damon. (and be careful on your new BIKE!!! for pete's sake!)

 

[chuck3]

Much as I love Rodgers and Hart (and I do), "Spring Is Here" is not one of their finer efforts IMO. Part of the problem with all the transcriptions is the musical mushiness of the tune itself. Just my $.02.

 

[brianrost]

I would heartily recommend checking out The Story of Fake Books by Barry Kernfeld.

Only $55 on Amazon. $68 for your Kindle

It's only 153 pages...they must be selling millions of copies at those prices

 

[J_Bass]

For those of us with completely undeveloped ears, and who want to learn tunes, is there a decent alternative? Are the Chuck Sher books good enough to evade the same reputation for wrongness?

I use iReal Pro.

You are being redirected...

 

[J_Bass]

Back when I started (in the mid 70's), you had to have the vinyl recording of a tune, or know someone who did - and would lend it to you (good luck!), as it was not po$$ible to own a version(s) of every tune that you wanted and needed to play. So, the Real Book was a useful, though sloppy and inaccurate, tool - as I soon found out.
These days, a version, or multiple versions, of a tune can be accessed in a matter of seconds, (for Free), so there is a real learning opportunity for musicians to access and hear a version of a tune that actually "exists"...unlike so many of the RB fiascos that do NOT exist, and are simply WRONG. For instance: there was no version of Dolphin Dance, (that I'm aware of), with the many ERRORS and Omissions (Wrong Pedal points, wrong changes, etc.) that existed prior to the RB publication. The RB's 4 bars of pedal "B" instead of a pedal "E" is NOT an "arrangement"... it is plain Wrong. (Yeah...I said it!)
The first chord of Blue In Green is Gmin6 9, and calling it "Bbmaj7 #11" is NOT an "arrangement".
The missing 4 bars in the bridge of Desafinado is NOT an "arrangement".
I could go on.
My problem with the RB, is NOT the Key of Autumn Leaves, (I agree - it's solid and it's correct), but rather, the many Errors and Omissions due to unqualified "transcribers" (I'm using this term very generously), and the obvious lack of any oversight, editing, or proofing by qualified/actual musicians. It's not even funny that this was (apparently?) used as a textbook.
My solution?
Use the RB or any other book or chart, to compare with an actual recording - make (many!) corrections to your RB, and begin transcribing specific versions of tunes that are NOT in the RB. Can't hear changes well? Spend some time with the pianist or guitarist in your group - they are always further along Harmonically than most bassists. Find a pianist or guitarist to take some lessons with - not for your bassplaying, but for your Harmonic awareness and Harmonic ear-training.
Given the amount of easy access and technological advances these days - (there is a thing called a "....Slow Downer", apparently?), there is no longer any excuse for folks to be using AND "learning" lame or stock or wrong changes.
We all talk about improvised music being "of the moment" and "creatively free", but if you can't hear the sound of what is actually present on a recording, (a recording that you can analyze/stop/slow down/listen to... over and over), what makes you think that you'll be able to function "creatively" "of the moment" in a live situation?
I would much rather hear someone play who has listened to, immersed themselves in, written up, and studied 10 tunes, than someone who has downloaded 2800 generic (or worse!) charts of tunes on an iPad. (Yes - the "easy access" IS a double-edged sword, as is most technology. Hey - I'm not an Amish Luddite.)
If anyone is wondering if this is " the Hill I Want to Die On...", the answer is Yes.
Thanks for your time and interest, Damon. (and be careful on your new BIKE!!! for pete's sake!)

Amazing Slow Downer.

I use it, too. It's really good.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ronimusic.asd

 

[damonsmith]

I think beginners are still best off starting with the Real Book in 2020. Just stick with the basic show tunes, no tunes by jazz composers. You will get II/V/I progressions in your ear and 32 bar forms. That is really the first step. 32 bar forms are one of the aspects that is less natural to those born after 1960 or so. Being able to think and play in four sets of 8 bar sections is something that is crucial to playing straight ahead jazz.
You just have to consider it one of many steps and not any sort of end point. Much like a whatever bass method you choose.
While @Don Kasper started this thread, I am willing to bet he can show up to gig with people playing RB versions of tunes and kill it. Moving beyond those versions is crucial for any deeper involvement, but ignoring them isn't really an option either.

 

[Don Kasper]

and kill it.

Yeah! I've killed a gig or 10 in my day!
(Thx. damon)

 

[Tom Lane]

I think beginners are still best off starting with the Real Book in 2020. Just stick with the basic show tunes, no tunes by jazz composers. You will get II/V/I progressions in your ear and 32 bar forms. That is really the first step. 32 bar forms are one of the aspects that is less natural to those born after 1960 or so. Being able to think and play in four sets of 8 bar sections is something that is crucial to playing straight ahead jazz.
You just have to consider it one of many steps and not any sort of end point. Much like a whatever bass method you choose.
While @Don Kasper started this thread, I am willing to bet he can show up to gig with people playing RB versions of tunes and kill it. Moving beyond those versions is crucial for any deeper involvement, but ignoring them isn't really an option either.

I think that's good advice, but, I would add to play jazz with the kind of harmonic vocabulary that is common - maybe traditional, certainly, historical - students need to make exploring the Blues an important aspect of their study. I observe many classically accomplished players really struggling with using both 3rds.

 

[Neon Scribe]

If you're in a casual jam situation, you really want to have the same chart as everyone else. This is done by consensus, or majority rule, or tradition, but you need to adapt to the group. If they are using the 5th Edition Real Book, then you're probably stuck with that, bad chords and bad notes and all. I have given copies of the legal, Hal Leonard 6th Edition Real Book to some people I've played with, just to get away from the worst problems with the old samizdat books. If you are in a regular group situation, you can put more effort into finding the charts you really like. There are a lot to choose from. I'm in a more difficult situation. I have a group with a female singer, so not only do I need lyrics, but almost none of the tunes are in their usual keys. I generally start with the Sher Music books when I can, the "New Real" and the "Standards Real", but I have to transcribe and transpose them. Because I'm a professional software developer in real life, I've undertaken to do this using the Lilypond music typesetting program. It produces incredibly beautiful charts, but it's more or less like writing a program to do it. Anyway, if beginners would start with the 6th Edition instead of the 5th Edition, they would at least be a little better off today than the previous generation.

 

[lurk]

I think the point the OP was making is that the sooner you need to learn to hear the music instead of relying on untrustworthy sources like fake books, the sooner you will sound like a professional musician. The Real Book can be a useful starting point, and I once was amazed to see a big name jazz pianist bring one to a recording session, but consider them only as a hint or starting point to learning music. I will confess that as bassists, we're in the hot seat. Most of the other musicians listen to us to show them the way.

 

[damonsmith]

Unfortunately, musicians who are aware of the recorded history of the music they are playing are not in the majority in any genre. Professionalism would demand knowing the real book changes and also figuring out which non-RB versions are being played in scene you are working in.
Sadly, the RB offers a level of standardization. There is no way to achieve standardization of correct versions, really.
I think the thing to consider is having correct versions ready once you have the luxury of deciding on rep. for a group you are in.

I think the point the OP was making is that the sooner you need to learn to hear the music instead of relying on untrustworthy sources like fake books, the sooner you will sound like a professional musician. The Real Book can be a useful starting point, and I once was amazed to see a big name jazz pianist bring one to a recording session, but consider them only as a hint or starting point to learning music. I will confess that as bassists, we're in the hot seat. Most of the other musicians listen to us to show them the way.

 

[lurk]

When I got that first Real Book it was like buying dope. The name of a guy, a phone call, an arranged meeting on the street...an entry to a secret club. I felt very cool. Then I opened it up to Four and tried to play along with the record.....