Music Ability vs. Music Knowledge

[Sonic_Death]

I was wondering when auditioning, or being in a band, which would benefit a bassist more. I ask this because one of the local bands around here has a bassist that is quite mediocre at best in his technique, but he has a lot of knowledge and experience in music.

I know this is a shifty question, but what do you think will prevail in the end when trying to get into a band, how well you can play your instrument with the knowledge you have(mainly bass), or having a superior knowledge of music/theory/composing and subpar playing ability.

 

[jbennardo]

cuz that describes me!

Can't read music, don't know theory... luckily, have a great ear. I am in the process of adding theory to my arsenal.

If you're auditioning, I would imagine that your ability is the only thing that can speak for you. Unless of course your audition consists of having a round table discussion on theory or composing. Bottom line, you need ability in order to execute theory... I think.

my 2¢

 

[thewanderer24]

Many (I would say MOST) types of music don't require advanced technique to play, so worrying about having huge chops is pretty silly in a lot of situations.

If you can't play your instrument well enough to play the songs the band wants to do, I can't imagine any band taking you on.

 

[jbennardo]

Many (I would say MOST) types of music don't require advanced technique to play, so worrying about having huge chops is pretty silly in a lot of situations.

If you can't play your instrument well enough to play the songs the band wants to do, I can't imagine any band taking you on.

True dat. And, adding to that and clarifying my position, I don't want to confuse ability with wanking. IMHO, ability is your overall presentation and application; playing the right notes at the right times. That may mean a slow groove or really fast slap line.

 

[bassist66]

If you're playing in a rock, country, punk band, etc, you probably don't need to know THAT much theory. If you at least know your roots and fifths of the chords needed, and have a basic sense of ryhthm, that should get you by for some bands. You may not be as flashy, but that will come with time. You don't have to be a great slapper or know how to do extensive soloing (unless you're trying out for RHCP, of course ). Plus, you can always keep learning while you play. Now, if you're thinking of joining up with a jazz band or a progressive rock band, you're gonna need to know a lot more theory than you would for one of the above forementioned type of bands.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Depends on the music. As noted, progressive bands often require bassists to have flashy chops. But most bands require a bassist to have good feel, good time, good taste... and vocal ability is always a plus! If you have chops too then that's OK, but inserting flashy licks at inopportune moments is the kiss of death.

I don't have flashy chops and can barely sing a lick, but I'm in a few bands and get calls to sub. That's because of my experience: I have a pretty good ear, can fake most forms of basic rock, and leave plenty of space for the other musicians.

Note: you should learn as much theory as you can, regardless. If you have time to hone your chops on top of that then so much the better... but most bassists don't get steady work from flashy chops.

 

[bassbully43]

Ability all the way. There are many high end bassists and other players who dont read or know theory ...flea..hendrix are a couple and those cats did fine! Read the posts and threads on this site about Marty O'Brain..no theory just a player and doing well. There is theory in just about anything I went to tech college and had to learn electrical and HVAC theory....it sucked but i got thru..there was a journeyman 20+ yr repairman in the class who said learn it and leave it or you will never repair anything...guess what he was so right! It taught me nothing until i got into lab and then i could get the job done. I threw theory out the window and became a repairman. I needed to clear my head and learn the practical.Dont think.... do learn the bass and play the natural music in your head and heart and know where and when it should go and you will be fine. Ill take a player over a high theory spouting half ass player anyday.

 

[Wrong Robot]

It's interesting, I've studied a lot of theory, I know a fair amount of all that junk, I know a lot about this and that. It's all in there somewhere, but I barely ever actively use it. But I'm always creating new music, always exploring ideas, never afraid to share my creations(even when they are crappy) to other people. I just love creating.

A friend of mine, he's like the exact opposite. He has spent about 5 years (same amount of time as me really) honing his theory to where it's a science basically. He is so into it, he knows his **** way more than I do, he's constantly trying to come up with new methods of learning and applying things..etc...etc...etc. Yet... he has the most performance anxiety of anyone I've ever met. Like, he just... can't create. He can't bring himself to. He's constantly at odds with actually making music and just thinking about it.

It's weird.

It's a tricky question though, because in a lot of ways, the ultimate goal of both theory and ability is to get to a point where you don't think about it, where it's just internalized and part of your playing..etc...etc. It also matters greatly what styles of music you are playing. Rock music, you can definitely wing not having any theory knowledge, but if you're playing jazz, well, you'll not being able to read or think harmonically will most likely be a huge bottleneck for your playing in a band situation.

ultimately though, I think, more valuable than both those things is having a strong internal ear and the ability to listen.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Depends on the music. As noted, progressive bands often require bassists to have flashy chops. But most bands require a bassist to have good feel, good time, good taste... and vocal ability is always a plus! If you have chops too then that's OK, but inserting flashy licks at inopportune moments is the kiss of death.

I don't have flashy chops and can barely sing a lick, but I'm in a few bands and get calls to sub. That's because of my experience: I have a pretty good ear, can fake most forms of basic rock, and leave plenty of space for the other musicians.

Note: you should learn as much theory as you can, regardless. If you have time to hone your chops on top of that then so much the better... but most bassists don't get steady work from flashy chops.

Agree entirely! I always quote a Bass Player interview, where they were talking to a top Nashville Producer and he said :

"I dont pay (hire) Bass Players to play fast - I pay them to read fast!!"

I think this applies directly to the original question - so it's much more important that you can play whatever tune is put in front of you at the drop of a hat and make the band sound good, rather than having 'stellar chops' - 99% of bands don't need a flashy bass player, they need a solid bass player who is reliable and provides a steady platform for the music.

 

[leanne]

I know this is a shifty question, but what do you think will prevail in the end when trying to get into a band, how well you can play your instrument with the knowledge you have(mainly bass), or having a superior knowledge of music/theory/composing and subpar playing ability.

Well can you read? Would you be comfortable working out of the real book on an audition?

 

[bassbully43]

I agree...i'm not also talking flashy here just a good player who is soild and can fake if he needs to. Id say if you have a half decent ear you should know where to go on changes etc. There are so many repeated lines and styles of playing in music (rock) that its a been there done that kinda thing. Progressive and jazz yea different story. Read Marty O'Brien's threads on theory etc. He sits in and subs with some big rock bands and does studio a very sought after guy....Marty does not read and said he barely knows modes and what scale he is playing in.He said some big pop recordings were quite simple and surprised him...basicly they play a loop of the song he jamms over and around it and they work it out it record. i have no interest in studio only stage and feel if you have passion for the bass it will show theory or not.

 

[bassicinstinct]

I think it is easy to forget just how much "down time" is involved in a band situation.

Given that your playing is of an adequate/accepable level for the band your are auditioning for, I think the deciding factor can often be down to your inter-personal skills (or lack of them ).

Being on time, doing your homework, being prepared and being amenable, flexible and friendly can go a long long way IMHO.

At the end of the day, you have to be able to play the material BUT you also have to be the sort of person that the other band members can at worst tolerate and at best enjoy spending "down time" with.

I was once in a band for quite a lengthy period doing 5 or 6 shows a week which, obviously, involved lots of travel. Suffice to say that there was no conversation in the truck on the way to the gigs or at the venue before, during or after the soundcheck or show. The 1 hour we spent onstage was fine, but the other 11 hours we spent travelling and generally hanging around were no fun at all purely due to the personalities (and egos ) of the different band members.

Just my 2 cent's worth.

 

[c-ba55]

To argue for theory...I know a good bit of theory, and listen and interact well, I have only rudimentary technique on keyboard & guitar. I would hire me before some egomaniacal guitar/keyboard wizard that can shred all day but doesn't know how to make music.

 

[Sonic_Death]

Thanks to all who responded, reading this has helped me a lot. I think I am just going to keep going at the pace I am at by practicing my technique and applying it with theory. Luckily I do a lot of keyboard/piano playing as well, so I have another reason too learn more theory and such, plus I can sight read(not nearly as well on bass, but getting there!)

 

[Stanley Design]

I personally dont know theory yet, nor am I very great at playing. But I know that theory and technique are vital tools for music, and couldn't be in a band with someone who didnt feel the same way. It's not always about how much you know, it's about how much you are willing to learn.

 

[Suckbird]

I'd prefer ability, you get more chicks that way...

 

[JimmyM]

See, this thread is one of those threads that's going to get me banned again, because I don't see why we have to decide which one is more important and it blows my mind that someone would even ask. Why can't you be a good player AND know theory? A lot of times people ask which is more important because they only want to work on one thing or the other to whittle their workload down. Remember what your parents said when you didn't study in school? "You're only cheating yourself."

BTW, while I know many subpar players who don't know theory, I can probably only count on one hand the ones that know theory well and play subpar. Just because some rock star makes millions and plays his ass off with no theory background doesn't mean you will. I think people too often use the example of famous musicians with little knowledge as an excuse not to learn. That person is the exception and you are not that person so you can't assume you're going to be that good without it. Hey, Bill Gates quit college, but it doesn't mean you'll be a billionaire if you quit.

 

[Krisfield]

For me, music is a life long quest of understanding the art, and creating the art.

In actual fact, after 18 years, I've signed up with a new teacher. This time it's not about learning the basics or technique, it's the real nuts and bolts stuff - like how did music evolve into what it is today? or How did ancient Greeks understand music? They had to be mathematicians for start! It's an amazing journey to say the least.

It all depends what type person you are. I do what do, because gives me purpose and keeps me happy. So it really doesn't matter what you do with your art, as long as you are happy. I know bass players who are quite happy to sling a bass around by there knees, and thrash away with a worn out pick.

I can see they're having fun, and I admire them for it.

 

[Sonic_Death]

See, this thread is one of those threads that's going to get me banned again, because I don't see why we have to decide which one is more important and it blows my mind that someone would even ask. Why can't you be a good player AND know theory? A lot of times people ask which is more important because they only want to work on one thing or the other to whittle their workload down. Remember what your parents said when you didn't study in school? "You're only cheating yourself."

I don't see why you'd get banned for that post, but maybe it's just me.

Anywho, with this thread I had no intention of using it to decide "hmm should I practice theory or technique", and I also don't want to see which one was 'better'. Honestly it was a very innocent thread to start a discussion from more seasoned players as to their opinions, and my question was answered. Sorry if this bothered you.

 

[Rumple]

I have a pretty good background in theory IMO. At least enough to get me by as a bass player. I have found in a band situation when you can bring a song that tops any other in the band its worth its weight in gold. Being flashy and throwing down is great, but contributing a hit! LOL, is the most important once again IMO. And in a band situation playing slap or doing a bass run 5000 mph is only cool in the least bit of moderation.