JimmyM said:
+1
A lot of people are quoting Marty in this thread. I don't want to speak for Marty, but he's stated numerous times on here that he would spend more time learning theory if he could do things over.
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Music Ability vs. Music Knowledge
- Thread starter Sonic_Death
- Start date
+1
A lot of people are quoting Marty in this thread. I don't want to speak for Marty, but he's stated numerous times on here that he would spend more time learning theory if he could do things over.
This thread sums up my problem.
I have a great ear. A great feel of timing (never miss a beat). Can easily play along to a lot of high technical stuff. (except tapping and extreme fast slapping. But a lot of Dream Theater stuff is actually not that hard if you simply practice it till you can play it from the top of your head)
And I don't know jack **** about any form of theory...
Can't read basic notes (I can given the time to "transpose" them to tabs because I can read tabs on the fly. I usually end up getting the original musicsheets and transposing them to bass-tabs)
I can play only basic major and minor scale (up and down) and know next to nothing about chord-progressions and can't improv-solo even if my life depends on it.
(I however have enough ear and feel to fake it when I have a rythm guitarist to follow. And as soon as I get a grip on the groove I usually start improvising, improving and changing on what I'm playing while trying to keep it in tune. Sometimes I screw up. Sometimes I do great. All the times I get compliments and/or hints and tips how to do it better. Jamming the blues and or basic rock is your best friend)
Trying to learn my basics now tho so I feel I will be fine. I at least get to play the music I love on the instrument I love.
And to quote the gibson site.
"Can you get rich and famous playing the guitar? Define Rich and Famous."
I'm famous enough with the people who I care about and I have (IMO) the best girlfriend I could wish for so as far as I'm concerned I AM rich and famous enough to be happy with it. Any more would just be gravy
I have a great ear. A great feel of timing (never miss a beat). Can easily play along to a lot of high technical stuff. (except tapping and extreme fast slapping. But a lot of Dream Theater stuff is actually not that hard if you simply practice it till you can play it from the top of your head)
And I don't know jack **** about any form of theory...
Can't read basic notes (I can given the time to "transpose" them to tabs because I can read tabs on the fly. I usually end up getting the original musicsheets and transposing them to bass-tabs)
I can play only basic major and minor scale (up and down) and know next to nothing about chord-progressions and can't improv-solo even if my life depends on it.
(I however have enough ear and feel to fake it when I have a rythm guitarist to follow. And as soon as I get a grip on the groove I usually start improvising, improving and changing on what I'm playing while trying to keep it in tune. Sometimes I screw up. Sometimes I do great. All the times I get compliments and/or hints and tips how to do it better. Jamming the blues and or basic rock is your best friend)
Trying to learn my basics now tho so I feel I will be fine. I at least get to play the music I love on the instrument I love.
And to quote the gibson site.
"Can you get rich and famous playing the guitar? Define Rich and Famous."
I'm famous enough with the people who I care about and I have (IMO) the best girlfriend I could wish for so as far as I'm concerned I AM rich and famous enough to be happy with it. Any more would just be gravy
I used Marty as an example...he's great and open and honest enough to say he lacks theory etc. He is doing damn well as others here that are limited in theory and all but good ear trained players...not wankers solid players. I hate theory and tryed as i will found out studing it made my love for playing the bass suffer. I would quit ever playing the bass today if theory was mandatory to play it.I play for the love of the bass the groove not to show off or quote the circle of 5ths or some other crap to look cool and complicate a basic groove cuz it just dont fit the way theory teaches you. 
Grab it and rip it find a groove. Marty your my hero dude and many others who say we are alright doing it our way.
If you love theory and understand it great go for it...but dont look bad cuz ya cant play a gig cuz insted of playing the bass you spent all your time reading how to understand it.
Grab it and rip it find a groove. Marty your my hero dude and many others who say we are alright doing it our way.If you love theory and understand it great go for it...but dont look bad cuz ya cant play a gig cuz insted of playing the bass you spent all your time reading how to understand it.
- Aug 16, 2003
- 1,130
- 24
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist;Essential sound products,Dunlop, Ergo Instruments
My take is this;i started playing bass when i was 13 in church,got pointers but no real lessons from some older players i met along the way so i was self-taught for the most part,although i knew some theory from playing sax in grade school.i recorded my first album at 18(they were still albums back then)with my church and knew that i needed more understanding if i wanted to be a pro so i went to music school and found out 2 things 1.while i sounded ok i didn't really know anything about music or really understand what i was playing on bass and 2. I could learn. I know/knew several guy's who are great players who don't know much theory and almost all of them say they wished they knew more.
I understand wishing and wanting and even needing are very different things. If you need to learn more to understand the bass go for it. If you play great and dont why do it. Marty said he wishes and should learn more but i doubt with the schedule he has he will do it....why ? The guy is a pro now.. will make him better or more sought after when they discover he now knows theory? If this is what you need to know the bass and perform great.... but im tired of everyone with an ounce of theory making players think they are under them and almost like we are lazy for not following thru with theory.We had an old mechanic where i lived years ago before cars were what they are today who could fix anything if he had the parts...I asked him how he learned and where he went to school .....he looked at me and said ...boy...aint no school here just years of learning what a car is saying to me knowing what it should look and sound like. You dont learn that in no school it comes right here under the car and under the hood. He used to have to retrain young guys from the auto ed we had here at a local high school. The point is know the bass and if you want more hit the books...i dont have time for theory and i has never effected my playing.
Sonic_Death said:
Well, "experience" is pretty obvious but what does "knowledge" mean? If it means the guy knows a zillion tunes in a zillion styles or has a great ear add that to experience and you have the formula for perpetual employment
As has been mentioned in the posts above, in the end chops are meaningless after you have achieved basic competence. Which is really good news, because most of us will never have awesome chops.
brianrost said:Well, "experience" is pretty obvious but what does "knowledge" mean? If it means the guy knows a zillion tunes in a zillion styles or has a great ear add that to experience and you have the formula for perpetual employment
As has been mentioned in the posts above, in the end chops are meaningless after you have achieved basic competence.
Agreed 100% - that's what I was trying to say - make the band sound good - be able to play anything that's thrown at you - is far more valuable than having massive technique!!
No bands are crying out for bass players who can do double thumping or two-handed-tapping etc. etc. - but they do need reliable players who can bang out the tunes with a good feel!
i get sub gigs, and got my current band, by having a good ear, good feel, and by knowing when to play the spaces.
(don't forget a buttload of luck...
)
i'm not saying i'm God's Gift to the Bass or anything. i can just seem to 'get it' when playing, and can usually handle curveballs.
i've taken some theory, and i can read, if slowly, but my 'ear theory' seems to be more developed.
of course, now that i've said that, watch me eff up at my next gig.
it never fails...i open my mouth, and end up biting my own ass...
it'sagoodthingthisthreaddidn'tgetpostedontheDBsideortheposterwouldhavehisheadonaplate.
(don't forget a buttload of luck...
)i'm not saying i'm God's Gift to the Bass or anything. i can just seem to 'get it' when playing, and can usually handle curveballs.
i've taken some theory, and i can read, if slowly, but my 'ear theory' seems to be more developed.
of course, now that i've said that, watch me eff up at my next gig.
it never fails...i open my mouth, and end up biting my own ass...
it'sagoodthingthisthreaddidn'tgetpostedontheDBsideortheposterwouldhavehisheadonaplate.
I've studied a bit of theory, even classically trained on trumpet in my earlier life, but I never stumbled onto the formula for taste.
Its the notes you DON"T play that seperate the men from the boys. And that takes time, maturity, and experience to realize the question is not "will this make ME sound good?", the question is "will this make the BAND sound good?".
Unless you're playing cutting edge jazz stuff, what's required from the bassist is not very technical 99% of the time.
And nothing makes you look like a million dollars than a good ear. Theory is useful, but its not the end goal, its a tool to facilitate what you want to express.
Music is like telling jokes. If you have to resort to quoting the theory behind what you did to prove it works, it doesn't work. You've probably applied the theory incorrectly.
Randy
Its the notes you DON"T play that seperate the men from the boys. And that takes time, maturity, and experience to realize the question is not "will this make ME sound good?", the question is "will this make the BAND sound good?".
Unless you're playing cutting edge jazz stuff, what's required from the bassist is not very technical 99% of the time.
And nothing makes you look like a million dollars than a good ear. Theory is useful, but its not the end goal, its a tool to facilitate what you want to express.
Music is like telling jokes. If you have to resort to quoting the theory behind what you did to prove it works, it doesn't work. You've probably applied the theory incorrectly.
Randy
