Music School

[BarqsBitMe]

Agree 100%. I'm not sure why so many people resist getting a musical education. The arts are one of the few fields where so many people consider ignorance an advantage. When I went to college in the stone age I learned to read, learned my instrument, scales, chords, theory, walking bass lines, how to read a chart, how to improvise, how to follow a chord progression, how to support a soloist, and a million other things and most importantly was mentored by pro musicians on how to conduct myself professionally. It was well worth the cost.

College tuition has skyrocketed over the past 2-3 decades. And it just keeps going up, every single year pandemic or no pandemic, inflation or no inflation. It is at the point where your options for attending are to be independently wealthy (or have rich parents who will bank roll you) or bury yourself in debt. As far as the latter, people feel pressured to put themselves on track to getting a high paying job because student loan debt is inescapable unless you move to another country permanently. The more expensive higher education becomes, the more you will see the student body that pursues the arts shrink. College costs about the same whether you get a music degree or an engineering degree. One is far more likely to lead to you being able to make a living and to pay back your student loans. The arts are of course incredibly important... but modern society is making education in the arts more and more inaccessible by anyone other than the wealthy (or children of the wealthy).

 

[BarqsBitMe]

I agree. Accredited courses are the way to go. Anyone can claim musical knowledge and write a course, but an accredited college or university must meet curriculum guidelines. The coursework is vetted. You don’t have to worry about receiving wrong or incomplete instruction.

Also, consider the time frame. Self instruction is trial and error. If you sift through enough garbage, you may find quality material, and through attrition you may even get a near complete picture, in one or two decades. Or you can enroll in a music program at an accredited university, and get the full picture in four years.

That certainly is the idea, and may end up being the case for some. However, I had numerous classes in college that were a requirement of my degree and were a complete joke. Some were a joke because the instructor was incompetent. Some were a joke because the curriculum was not applicable.

Also, I can't speak specifically for music schools but as far as traditional colleges, only regional accreditation means anything. National accreditation, by itself, means absolutely nothing (in the US, can't speak for other countries). Many of the predatory TV colleges that popped up in the last 30 years (and have since been shut down and/or have ongoing litigation against them) were only nationally accredited.

 

[lfmn16]

It is at the point where your options for attending are to be independently wealthy (or have rich parents who will bank roll you) or bury yourself in debt.

No, those aren't your only options, not even close. First, if you're a young person you can enlist in the military and get money to pay for tuition. Second, if you start early enough, you can study hard and get an academic scholarship. Third, you can practice your assterisk off like I did and get a performance scholarship. Fourth, you can go to a community college for your first two years. Fifth, you can go to a state school (Shepherdstown University near me has full time tuition under $8,000 a year; average community college in WV is about 3,500 per year). I'm sure there are more options that I'm not thinking of. There are lots of options, just not any where a free education is handed to you.

 

[BarqsBitMe]

There are lots of options, just not any where a free education is handed to you.

Thanks for being condescending. I have a degree and I am a veteran, but go ahead and keep talking to me like I am 16. I never said anything about expecting college to be free.

Go ahead and bestow some more of your wisdom on me though.

 

[lfmn16]

Thanks for being condescending.

Any time!

Go ahead and bestow some more of your wisdom on me though.

If I thought it would help, I would.

What I can do that will help is introduce you to my ignore list. It won’t help you, but it will do wonders for me.

 

[BarqsBitMe]

Any time!



If I thought it would help, I would.

What I can do that will help is introduce you to my ignore list. It won’t help you, but it will do wonders for me.

OK BOOMER

 

[MrLenny1]

I had been gigging for 6 years before I decided to
get serious. Private studies with a good teacher did it.

 

[dalkowski]

IMHO and IME the crux is twofold:

First, have a clear, specific goal or goals that you want to advance toward ("get better" doesn't count).

Second (and this is the hard part) connecting with an instructor who a) loves to teach and isn't a bitter dead-ender who didn't make it big performing and b) will listen to your goals and create a strategic lesson plan with incremental, achievable steps (so you feel successful and want to conquer the next one) that move you forward toward your goals.

Worked for me, YMMV.

(And don't get me started on college-level "music schools.")

 

[Spin Doctor]

Agree 100%. I'm not sure why so many people resist getting a musical education. The arts are one of the few fields where so many people consider ignorance an advantage. When I went to college in the stone age I learned to read, learned my instrument, scales, chords, theory, walking bass lines, how to read a chart, how to improvise, how to follow a chord progression, how to support a soloist, and a million other things and most importantly was mentored by pro musicians on how to conduct myself professionally. It was well worth the cost.

You absolutely need to get out and play with people, it's the best way to get really good, BUT, please know your assterisk from a hole in the ground before you get out there. I'm not saying you have to be Victor Wooten level, but you should know the notes on your instrument, be able to follow a simple tune and create a simple bass line on the fly. And open mic is a great way to test the waters to see if you're ready.

How is the music scene for your these days?

 

[SteveCS]

...
Also, I can't speak specifically for music schools but as far as traditional colleges, only regional accreditation means anything. National accreditation, by itself, means absolutely nothing (in the US, can't speak for other countries).
...

How do you reach that conclusion? Here in the UK, National accreditation and National qualifications carry orders of magnitude more weight than regional ones.

 

[Lownote38]

IMHO and IME the crux is twofold:

First, have a clear, specific goal or goals that you want to advance toward ("get better" doesn't count).

Second (and this is the hard part) connecting with an instructor who a) loves to teach and isn't a bitter dead-ender who didn't make it big performing and b) will listen to your goals and create a strategic lesson plan with incremental, achievable steps (so you feel successful and want to conquer the next one) that move you forward toward your goals.

Worked for me, YMMV.

(And don't get me started on college-level "music schools.")

What if I want to get you started regarding your feelings on college-level "music schools"? I take it you have negative feelings towards that route of learning?

 

[dalkowski]

What if I want to get you started regarding your feelings on college-level "music schools"? I take it you have negative feelings towards that route of learning?

Some may (and do) thrive on that route and I take nothing away from them. However, Mrs. and I have had a negative experience as the parent of a former student that left us with a pretty dim view. You can PM me.

 

[BarqsBitMe]

How do you reach that conclusion? Here in the UK, National accreditation and National qualifications carry orders of magnitude more weight than regional ones.

Through researching schools and degree programs during my college days and then again when I was considering graduate school. It just happens to be the opposite in the the US than in the UK I guess. In the US, national accreditation means very little by itself. If a given school or program lacks regional accreditation, it is a giant red flag if it is an academic institution and not something like a trade school. Here is some info if you want to know more: https://www.nu.edu/resources/regional-vs-national-accreditation-what-is-the-difference/

 

[SteveCS]

Through researching schools and degree programs during my college days and then again when I was considering graduate school. It just happens to be the opposite in the the US than in the UK I guess. In the US, national accreditation means very little by itself. If a given school or program lacks regional accreditation, it is a giant red flag if it is an academic institution and not something like a trade school. Here is some info if you want to know more: https://www.nu.edu/resources/regional-vs-national-accreditation-what-is-the-difference/

OK, that's a very informative link and thanks for posting. I guess the difference comes down to practicalities of geography and scale - the entire UK is undoubtedly smaller (1/40th area and 1/6th population) than any single 'Region' in the US. Here, each Country in the Union (England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland) has it's own education accreditation service, so I guess they are regional in that sense, but national insofar as they cover the entirety of each country and have equivalence in the other countries and throughout the Union.

 

[CharlieDN]

I feel very similar to what you’ve stated but would add that I’m not so sure it has to be a music school per se, but that one recognizes, genuinely acknowledges & pursues all aspects of musical development.

As one who has a degree in music education I can say that while it gave me a reasonable understanding (see below for additional detail) of many aspects, it wasn’t until I found a great teacher that my development on bass really transformed. I don’t mean this to at all undermine how much I sweat in school because boy did I….I couldn’t even match pitch in my first ear training course.

A school setting will definitely introduce discipline and social accountability where it may otherwise be lacking but again the sweat part is really where the rubber hits the road. In my case it wasn’t until I realized that I really didn’t “know” the fundamentals (yes, music theory is critical) in real time (studio musician standards) on my own instrument, that things changed. I can say this from my own experience, in college I studied the history of music and literature. Often I could not understand complex pieces from the curriculum. When I needed to write my review of Just Mercy, I used examples of various essays https://samplius.com/free-essay-examples/just-mercy/ But if I had competent teachers open to dialogue, perhaps I would gain new knowledge and did not look for help on educational sites. Therefore, I think that discipline alone is not enough, you need to study with a good teacher, and whether such a teacher will be in the chosen school is not known.

I’m sure a lot of folks get this with performance immersion but for me I needed clearer direction with my primary instrument and specifically “how to practice”. I will say that I have very little performance experience but my interest in all things music feels limitless. That felt a bit rambling…but yes I agree with the sentiment.

I agree that it may not necessarily be a music school. But in my opinion, when teaching, it is the dialogue with an experienced teacher that is important. Because during the dialogue you can learn new nuances of the technique and understand why you are being taught in a certain way. For me personally, the dialogue with the teacher is important and I'm not sure that it can be replaced with something.
Maybe this is just my understanding of the learning process and many people will not agree with this.

 

[vindibona1]

IMO in person music lessons are essential, unless you have a particular musical intuition that most don't have. Online lessons can introduce material, but they don't provide any feedback. A video lesson can't prevent or correct bad habits or make suggestions as to how to modify what the player is doing. And it certainly can't comment and coach "musicality".

Just yesterday I gave a face-to-face guitar lesson to an adult student who has been playing for years. I've been coaching him for almost two years know. He was originally self taught and took a few lessons from another teacher. He's got habits that are almost painful to break and nobody has ever taught him nuance and musicality. Bad habits can take 20 minutes to get branded into your skull and a LONGASS time to undo (over-write).

Though I'm totally qualified as a music teacher, not so much a bass teacher, I just picked up a new bass student who plays some guitar, some keyboard and caught him with one of those self-taught bad habits before they could get ingrained. Had he been doing online courses there would be nobody to provide feedback and guidance to build good habits from the beginning.

FWIW, I teach my lessons from the standpoint of a MUSICIAN, not just a bass (or guitar or trumpet) teacher. IMO learning to be MUSICAL is possibly more important than the instrument itself (unless you are someone like the late Michael Jackson who had musical genius in his blood from young childhood).