Music School

[IamGroot]

I started playing bass around 1990. I was totally clueless for the first 10 years. Then I stumbled om music night school around 2000 and it transformed me as a musician.

A lot of posts in the "Instruction Forum" that make me think that same fumbling I struggled with is going on a lot with others.

May I respectfully suggest that anyone with a real burning desire to improve musically hook up with a bona fide music school. Not SBL or any other internet course. A real music school, that will make you learn the music basics and sweat a little bit.

Anybody else feel this way?

 

[ErikP.Bass]

I feel very similar to what you’ve stated but would add that I’m not so sure it has to be a music school per se, but that one recognizes, genuinely acknowledges & pursues all aspects of musical development.

As one who has a degree in music education I can say that while it gave me a reasonable understanding (see below for additional detail) of many aspects, it wasn’t until I found a great teacher that my development on bass really transformed. I don’t mean this to at all undermine how much I sweat in school because boy did I….I couldn’t even match pitch in my first ear training course.

A school setting will definitely introduce discipline and social accountability where it may otherwise be lacking but again the sweat part is really where the rubber hits the road. In my case it wasn’t until I realized that I really didn’t “know” the fundamentals (yes, music theory is critical) in real time (studio musician standards) on my own instrument, that things changed.

I’m sure a lot of folks get this with performance immersion but for me I needed clearer direction with my primary instrument and specifically “how to practice”. I will say that I have very little performance experience but my interest in all things music feels limitless. That felt a bit rambling…but yes I agree with the sentiment.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Anybody else feel this way?

Absolutely.

As many different teachers in as many different music sub-subjects (theory, ear training, sight singing, history, etc etc) with as many different peer students as possible.

Also, I learned a bunch of stuff on the road and real-world gigging that I didn’t learn in school. Both book and street smarts are beneficial. One’s not necessarily greater than the other, but one by itself is definitely lesser than both combined. RIMHO

 

[IamGroot]

I feel very similar to what you’ve stated but would add that I’m not so sure it has to be a music school per se, but that one recognizes, genuinely acknowledges & pursues all aspects of musical development.

As one who has a degree in music education I can say that while it gave me a reasonable understanding (see below for additional detail) of many aspects, it wasn’t until I found a great teacher that my development on bass really transformed. I don’t mean this to at all undermine how much I sweat in school because boy did I….I couldn’t even match pitch in my first ear training course.

A school setting will definitely introduce discipline and social accountability where it may otherwise be lacking but again the sweat part is really where the rubber hits the road. In my case it wasn’t until I realized that I really didn’t “know” the fundamentals (yes, music theory is critical) in real time (studio musician standards) on my own instrument, that things changed.

I’m sure a lot of folks get this with performance immersion but for me I needed clearer direction with my primary instrument and specifically “how to practice”. I will say that I have very little performance experience but my interest in all things music feels limitless. That felt a bit rambling…but yes I agree with the sentiment.

This

 

[IamGroot]

Absolutely.

As many different teachers in as many different music sub-subjects (theory, ear training, sight singing, history, etc etc) with as many different peer students as possible.

Also, I learned a bunch of stuff on the road and real-world gigging that I didn’t learn in school. Both book and street smarts are beneficial. One’s not necessarily greater than the other, but one by itself is definitely lesser than both combined. RIMHO

This also

 

[Phil Smith]

To me real growth comes when you're gigging provided that you're involved in situations where you're in over your head. IMHO, that's where you really grow.

 

[ErikP.Bass]

To me real growth comes when you're gigging provided that you're involved in situations where you're in over your head. IMHO, that's where you really grow.

I’ve heard so many people say this. I have not done it neatly enough. Great reminder. Thank you!

 

[buldog5151bass]

Knowledge is always good. I had two years of theory when I was in college, along with a year of synthesizer programming (original Moog and DX-7). Although I've never been much into classical music, that knowledge has helped me in every thing I do musically.

 

[bass12]

Music school can be great, but I wouldn’t recommend going into debt over it.

 

[Snarf]

I think what Groot means is not music college, but a local music school offering lessons, ensembles, etc.

I have been a private instructor for many years, mainly in the house call and online spaces. Recently I've begun picking up work at a standalone music school for the first time in maybe 15-16 years. What I notice is that the students who study there are more likely to practice, improve, and generally be decent players. It seems to be a really good environment.

Now here's my paywall website rant: Those web sites can never tailor a curriculum to YOUR needs, the instructor on the other end will never give you personalized feedback, and can never spot bad habits in your playing. It just seems to me like these personalities selling subscriptions are better salespeople than instructors.

 

[BassChuck]

I had just about finished my degree in music before I got around to playing bass, so my intro to bass was from already knowing the theory behind most of the music I was playing. I also knew how to read music well before hand. So, what Groot is saying is totally on point. The knowledge you get from a music education (as different from a Bass Guitar education) is very valuable not only in terms of know what you are doing, but knowing why you are doing it. Also the scope of musical knowledge outside the world of bass is worth the effort. Knowing how to talk to other musicians about what and why they do the things they do is fun, and useful.

 

[BrotherMister]

I think music school is a good avenue, but unfortunately not all music schools are good! Certainly in this part of the world a great many local music schools have a jack of all trades or a guitar player teaching bass/tabs/song of the week etc. Even some universities here don’t even teach music…

A great teacher, whether privately or in a school, will always benefit you though… so long as one puts the work in!

 

[dreamadream99]

I agree. Accredited courses are the way to go. Anyone can claim musical knowledge and write a course, but an accredited college or university must meet curriculum guidelines. The coursework is vetted. You don’t have to worry about receiving wrong or incomplete instruction.

Also, consider the time frame. Self instruction is trial and error. If you sift through enough garbage, you may find quality material, and through attrition you may even get a near complete picture, in one or two decades. Or you can enroll in a music program at an accredited university, and get the full picture in four years.

 

[SteveCS]

I agree. Accredited courses are the way to go. Anyone can claim musical knowledge and write a course, but an accredited college or university must meet curriculum guidelines. The coursework is vetted. You don’t have to worry about receiving wrong or incomplete instruction.

Also, consider the time frame. Self instruction is trial and error. If you sift through enough garbage, you may find quality material, and through attrition you may even get a near complete picture, in one or two decades.
...

All undeniable truth to which millions of folks around the world could no doubt attest, but...

...
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Or you can enroll in a music program at an accredited university, and get the full picture in four years.

Maybe in theory, but probably not in practice. Most degree courses (BMus) here (UK) have stringent entry criteria - typically this means good grades in related secondary education subjects, e.g. A-level in music, and evidence of ability to play, e.g. certificates of performance at grade 8 or higher, just to apply. If you make the sift there is usually an audition. These things amount to many, at least 5 - 8, years' worth of instruction, stuctured study, practice and preparation. I would say, for better or worse, it's not possible to just walk onto any worthwhile 4-year degree course, at least on my side of the pond.

 

[fdeck]

The US secondary education system doesn't have graded music curriculum, but other than that, the process is roughly the same. To be accepted into the music performance program at the U of Wisconsin, you have to submit a musical resume, have recommendation letters, and pass an audition. The kids who are auditioning for those positions are already playing at a very high level, which is almost only possible via private study. And they always mention: You have to get accepted into the university itself through the normal application process. You can look up the audition requirements.

They don't have a program for electric bass per se, but there are schools that do, typically through a jazz studies program. There are other kinds of degrees as well, such as music education, composition, conducting, etc.

This sounds tough, but I think it's a good thing. As I think I mentioned in another thread, it makes little sense to pay college tuition money to be taught the basics. Also, an important part of college music study is the ensembles, and you have to be able to hang in an ensemble composed of students playing at a similar level.

 

[SteveCS]

...
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The kids who are auditioning for those positions are already playing at a very high level, which is almost only possible via private study.
...

Yes, that was my main point - the pre-requisite for the 4-year course is probably 6 to 10 years of continuous structured work just to stand a chance at the audition.

 

[Snarf]

And then once those students are out of school, they're $200k in debt, the monthly payments on which will prevent them from focusing on a full-time music career.

I really think music should go back to an apprenticeship system. These big music schools (speaking as a graduate of one of the most famous ones, and luckily doing music full time) are just debt factories. I can kind of see the benefit of classical conservatories, as that is pretty much the only track toward an orchestra job. They still charge too much. But all these "contemporary music" programs (jazz included) have hugely inflated curricula that do little to prepare musicians for the real world.

One thing being mentioned here in favor of undergrad level music school is the ensembles. I don't even want to know what each ensemble class would cost at my alma mater now. But you can get ensemble experience for free almost anywhere. There are jam sessions out there for every type of music, and you get to play with players at every level, many of which will be far, far better than you. In music school, similar level players get grouped together. I learned a hell of a lot more from getting schooled by better players and playing in faculty groups.

 

[Raychristopher]

I think music school is a good avenue, but unfortunately not all music schools are good! Certainly in this part of the world a great many local music schools have a jack of all trades or a guitar player teaching bass/tabs/song of the week etc. Even some universities here don’t even teach music…





My parents forced me to apply to music school. I was not impressed, but I had no choice. Now I am a writing prompt generator. In those days, I started to like to create songs. I was in love with composing lyrics. On Writing Prompt Generator for Students - EduBirdie.com I read different lyrical essays. That is my method of inspiration.

I love to admire nature and to write lyrics for a new song.

 

[Lownote38]

I started playing bass around 1990. I was totally clueless for the first 10 years. Then I stumbled om music night school around 2000 and it transformed me as a musician.

A lot of posts in the "Instruction Forum" that make me think that same fumbling I struggled with is going on a lot with others.

May I respectfully suggest that anyone with a real burning desire to improve musically hook up with a bona fide music school. Not SBL or any other internet course. A real music school, that will make you learn the music basics and sweat a little bit.

Anybody else feel this way?

I feel the way you do, but you don't need an entire school, just a real teacher who will teach you what a music program would, only for much less money. I actually have a music degree, but I could have learned everything I did without paying full tuition for it.

 

[lfmn16]

Agree 100%. I'm not sure why so many people resist getting a musical education. The arts are one of the few fields where so many people consider ignorance an advantage. When I went to college in the stone age I learned to read, learned my instrument, scales, chords, theory, walking bass lines, how to read a chart, how to improvise, how to follow a chord progression, how to support a soloist, and a million other things and most importantly was mentored by pro musicians on how to conduct myself professionally. It was well worth the cost.

You absolutely need to get out and play with people, it's the best way to get really good, BUT, please know your assterisk from a hole in the ground before you get out there. I'm not saying you have to be Victor Wooten level, but you should know the notes on your instrument, be able to follow a simple tune and create a simple bass line on the fly. And open mic is a great way to test the waters to see if you're ready.