Music Shop Tyranny

[Tapout73]

^ At least he's honest

 

[Disappear]

I can't stand the commission sales tactic when you got X number of employees hovering through the store and each on asking you "need any help?". I tend to stick to the ones who don't have that and just let you pick up any bass and go nuts on it. If you want help, you ask and they should provide because it doesn't get much worse then plugging in and having 6 people ask you how everything's going when you're trying to listen to the bass/amp/pedal's acoustics.

Walked into this one store looking for a nice effects pedal. The damn salesmen always were pushing the "all in one" pedals (i.e. BP 50 200 80 etc) which aren't all that bad unless you know what you want. I wanted a compressor and he [the salesman] kept pushing the BP50. If I know what I want, let me get it.
Rant mode = off

 

[D.Don]

Sporting Goods:

Mostly shoes, all are sales/commissioned based. Footballs/softballs no.

I brought up wal-mart because it's a big box store.

Worked at guitar center close to a year, been thru the Bane buyout (that lil buyout you all piss and moan about. It's fixed pricing, nothing we can do about it, so point your guns to Bane)

made a lot of money there, made many kids/parents/musicians happy. I've only ever seen a few customers yell (they mostly yell about how we can't return mics since that's a health code violation or how we can't return software, and that's a copyrights violation), and in as long as I've worked there the store I worked at received only once complaint.

I just think I hear a lotta BS being slung from people who don't know. You talk about "mark up" and "commission" like it's the devil's work. But let's be honest. Guitar Center has a 30 day return policy. if you don't like your guitar or your effect, bring it back, try out another one. There is NO store that is that elastic. Hell, I've gotten screwed at Sam Ash, they wouldn't take back my GEB7, I had to deal with the manufacturer after only 17 days of having it. There's not store that does a better job of getting a customer what they need. That's the truth, you may disagree, but give me a list of gear you wanted, I coulda gotten it for you cheaper than anyone else.

The horror stories I hear aren't about Guitar Center, hell half aren't even qualified as "horror stories" it's just stupid rants by someone who won't get off their cross.

I can imagine GC being a good general store for the big crowd, problem we have here is that bass/gear-slutz like us hangin on forums all days, doesn't have many places to go and that's of course difficult to channelize, heck even I am complaining and still I live three minutes from 80% of the music stores in Paris, France.

I am happy when I find a small store with employees who care about their clients (I have found less than a handfull of these amongst those 30'ish stores down the block here), the fact that they seldom have stuff in stock can be accepted as long as the employees see me as a client, respect me, and in the end, we build a relation and getting help is as easy as asking your buddy about something.

Consensus, huge malls is not for slutz.



D.Don

 

[Quadruple Jay]

Pretty much all of my Guitar Center experiences have been pretty good. I went to the Buffalo, NY store to buy about $2200 worth of gear for my music club at school (I run the club and the school funds all our equipment purchases) and I dealt with some really nice guys who made sure I got everything I needed and knocked about $500 off the total price for me. When I needed something for myself I was sure to go back to the same two or three guys. I have another $1500 purchase to make this fall, and they'll definitely get the first nod.

I've found that purchasing at Guitar Center works best when you have a really good idea of what you want when you walk in. Salesmen general tend to hassle you less that way because they can see that you are informed about the product and are already very interested in making a purchase. They wont be as apt to feed you any bullcrap and just let you test it out before you lay your money down. Back when I got my Jazz at the Syracuse, NY store, I walked into the store knowing exactly what bass I wanted, as I had been trying it for a few weeks. The guy let me sit down and play, and asked me if I needed any help. I told him that I was very interested in purchasing the bass and wanted to give it a quick test run first. He was very happy to let me do so, and he got full commission on it!

Its usually not the best place to go for a great equipment conversation (gotta love the Mom 'n Pops for that!), but if you know what you want or want to buy a lot of stuff in bulk, GC is a genuinely convenient place.

 

[DudeistMonk]

I don't think LowPro has been rude at all, maybe a little defensive, but I can see why. Sales people are people too...and yeah there are a lot of DB guitar salesmen, but there are also a hell of a lot of good salesmen who make sales without being jerks.

I've been treated like a know nothing by sales staff before, frankly cause I didn't know enough, thats when I go home and do some research cause clearly if the sales guy knows that much more then me I'm getting a lecture not having a conversation.

My sister wants to buy a used car based on looks not specs, millage, condition, reliability...she is going to get screwed. If you go to a guitar center expecting to pick out the pretty one and be happy with for the next 5 years than you are a fool.

I find when I walk in at least with some knowledge of what I'm looking for its much easier, the sales guy doesn't talk down to me cause my initial question wasn't "hey man what kinda amp should I get, I want something big man." it was "So I've been looking at the Ampeg B2RE I figure 450watts is more than enough for bar gigs, what do you think?, so now whats difference between this cab and that cab?" and I leave much happier and so does the sales guy.

As for newbs yeah I hate when the sales guy plays his signature "I'm gonna sell you this riff" he should sound a few notes, a two bar bass line would suffice and then start explaining to the kid what he likes/dislikes about the instrument and start throwing out some options and letting the kid try them. I want to hear what the sales guy thinks about the durability, how many does he get back broken? I want to hear what he has to say about model A's pickups...I take it all with a grain of salt but when he starts clicking in with things I know or have heard then we can start trusting each other.

Also I only feel so much sympathy for those that don't have the common sense to use consumer reviews, instructors, magazines FORUMS, and other means to research major purchases, if it costs more than $200 dollars and I have one you better bet I know a hell of a lot about whatever it is, and every other version/knock off/other brand of it.

 

[Captain_Arrrg]

Well... I never called it douchebaggery.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't get too worked up over this thread.

+1 Salesmanship is an art form. To be able to give just enough distance that you're not hovering, and close enough to cater to whims as they arise. Some people aren't good a this (especially since said "distance" changes from customer to customer) and some even get "sleazy", but caveat emptor.

A good salesman wants to garner good customer relations. To be the cool guy with the helpful answers instead of the slime ball who is only looking to make sales.

 

[Bass Thunder]

Anyway, the way people at the big chain music stores treat customers is often downright disturbing. I'll provide a few anecdotes and then tell you how I feel about it overall...

Sorry, but I think your rant speaks more about your perception than observation. You cold be completely accurate in your portrayals, but they seem to have a very negative slant - beginning with your choice of title, "Music Shop Tyranny".

1. Obviously shy, young kid is there with his dad looking for a new instrument. The sales person enthusiastically approaches, and the kid picks out an axe that catches his eye. The sales person grabs it, plugs the sucker in and plays some face-melting riff to "show him" how good of an axe it is. Sometimes this goes on for an uncomfortably long time, while you can tell the kid just wants to play it himself. He hands it off to a child whose ego has just been completely deflated, the joy and excitement of buying a new instrument just completely gutted out of him.

Maybe the sales person was just in an extra good mood and got carried away a bit. Maybe the last 5 customers WERE inspired by his playing. Maybe the customer was just a whinny little brat who has gone through 5 other hobbies that summer and easily discouraged by everything.

2. I need a 6" daisy chain patch cord, ask the salesperson where they keep him and without missing a beat he says "you putting a pedal board together?"

Just making small talk, conversation. Lighten up.

3. A female comes in looking for a new instrument, and the salesperson is very caring and friendly, basically to the point of patronizing/coddling, and directs her to the heart-shaped and pink guitars.

Maybe the sales person was observant and noticed she had a pink tattoo on her arm or ankle or something and thought she actually would like those choices. If not, she might be bright enough to let him know if she's not, and not some victim of sexism.

I don't want to paint a completely glum picture, because a small percentage of these people are actually decent and can help you out, but the three examples I gave exemplify the vast majority of the salespeople I come across in Sam Ash or GC. Here's why they act that way.

That may actually be the root of your issues - go somewhere else. I doubt they'll miss you - it's a big industry.

If you live in a location where you have both Sam Ash and GC and frequent them often, you probably have other smaller music stores that don't cater to the beginners.

***Now read this part because it's really f*cked up!***

You might think the salesperson is going to push the more expensive equipment so he can make more dough off the commission, but this is not always the case. Commission at GC is based on the MARK UP of the product. That is the difference in price between what GC pays for it, and what they sell it to you for. So what happens is you might have decent bass "A" for $400, and terribly inadequate bass "B" for $400. If GC buys bass "A" for $300, and Bass "B" for $100, guess which one the salesperson is going to push EVERY TIME?

You, the impressionable kid who just had his face melted off by the salesperson, are either in such a state of shame and/or awe, that now you're in the position to listen to whatever this guy tells you you should get. But he's not giving you the best advice...doesn't have your personal interests in mind. He's just making the suggestion that will line HIS pockets the most.

Unfortunately, that happens everywhere. There is even a text book name for it - asymmetric information. It happens every five seconds on Wall Street and Main St. Cars, houses, basses, bottled water, whatever. One should prepare and gather information from places such as TalkBass so one can be as informed as the sales person.

Music is sacred. What you do when you are playing music is taking heart, soul, and truth, and broadcasting it into the world in the best way you know how. This is not something to be taken lightly, and when someone co-opts it, mangles, it or destroys it, that is a major sin against God. I want you to think about this story the next time you see an employee of a music store treating someone the wrong way.

It's GUITAR CENTER not utopia. Go to another store if all you see is negativity there and sins against God. There are other places that uphold art as "sacred" and they're not owned by a corporation.

I wish you luck.

 

[CBRStingray]

...Example: If I were to walk into your store to buy a bass, I would select one and ask you to get it down off the wall for me. If the first thing you do is take it from the wall, plug it in, and start shredding without offering it to me first, you just lost the sale. I came into the store to buy a bass, not to watch you masturbate...

BINGO!

I can't stand when they do that.

 

[CBRStingray]

I spent 15 minutes reading this thread before I realised that the title wasn't "Music shop Tranny"

 

[JimmyM]

Geez, I haven't seen this much whining since the time my kids were 7 and 6 and they misbehaved and blew a trip to Chuck E. Cheese.

Wow, salesmen want your money? SHOCK OF ALL SHOCKS! And to get so upset about a salesman playing a guitar before he hands it to you? How do you know that same salesman isn't inspiring the heck out of some kid to really want to play better? Is it that much of a dealbreaker to you? Is your ego so fragile you can't stand to watch someone who can play well riff for a minute?

Sorry, I'm with Lowpro on this one, except I'm not a salesman and I don't have to sugarcoat how whiny it sounds Save your whining for the important things...like when they used to overcharge you for the PG on Markbass stuff.

 

[CBRStingray]

Geez, I haven't seen this much whining since the time my kids were 7 and 6 and they misbehaved and blew a trip to Chuck E. Cheese.

Wow, salesmen want your money? SHOCK OF ALL SHOCKS! And to get so upset about a salesman playing a guitar before he hands it to you? How do you know that same salesman isn't inspiring the heck out of some kid to really want to play better? Is it that much of a dealbreaker to you? Is your ego so fragile you can't stand to watch someone who can play well riff for a minute?

Sorry, I'm with Lowpro on this one, except I'm not a salesman and I don't have to sugarcoat how whiny it sounds Save your whining for the important things...like when they overcharge you for the PG on Markbass stuff.

I don't want them wanking off on an instrument before they give it to me. I don't need 'inspiration' from them - I need helpful service. I'm there to get a feel for the instrument and decide on a purchase. I'm not there as an excuse for them to show off.

Further more, having been a beginner at one stage I can attest to the fact that having someone who has been playing for many years show off right before giving you the instrument, when they know you are looking to make your very first purchase, is quite discouraging.

 

[20db pad]

I've never been treated poorly at any GC. Guess I'm just lucky.

 

[Hemispheres85]

He's my take-

I've never been to a Guitar Center and I probably won't considering the nearest one to me is hundreds of miles away.

But as to music stores in general, I have some things to say. I worked last summer at my local music store as in "intern", where I had flexible hours and got paid in store credit which I used to fund new gear. Starting tomorrow, I'm going to be working as a paid employee, despite the fact that I'm younger than the minimum age they hire at (18). Over the last summer I observed what my local music store was about. Sometimes it's a real joy to pull out a new guitar and talk to a customer about the amp they're thinking about buying. Sometimes it makes me sick seeing other people talk nice about terrible equipment and things no one should buy. Where I'm working, every employee plays out on the side, many are in-store private teachers as well. Sure you've got an anal sales manager that probably thinks I have no real world sense and is "all business", but when I'm there, I'm more interested in leaving a good impression so that people will want to come back, not force a sale on them so I can make a quick buck with a one time customer.

I think working there this summer will be different, as I've developed as a classical musician and have studied theory and double bass over the last year. I've really come to terms with the fact that music IS very spiritual and serious and that you need to have respect for the things that enable us to play it. I'm going to go with the sales flow and try to make a profit, but I think being as helpful and not being pushy will pay off in the end.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't want them wanking off on an instrument before they give it to me. I don't need 'inspiration' from them - I need helpful service. I'm there to get a feel for the instrument and decide on a purchase. I'm not there as an excuse for them to show off.

Further more, having been a beginner at one stage I can attest to the fact that having someone who has been playing for many years show off right before giving you the instrument, when they know you are looking to make your very first purchase, is quite discouraging.

Well, that's one way to look at it, but it seems to be a pretty negative way to look at it. When I started out and I saw salesmen better than me in the store, I'd get an attitude like, "Wow, that's cool, and when I come back in a few months I'm going to know how to play that!" I don't know...I guess good playing inspires me no matter where it comes from. Still does.

 

[The_Orlonater]

Wow, whenever I went into GC, they sales staff were nice to me and got me the instrument off the wall and left me alone. There was this one time, where one of the employees didn't do what I politley asked him to then I told another guy and he got an angry-like look on his face. Anyway, other then that good experiences. This is the GC on Halsted in Chicago.

 

[CBRStingray]

Well, that's one way to look at it, but it seems to be a pretty negative way to look at it. When I started out and I saw salesmen better than me in the store, I'd get an attitude like, "Wow, that's cool, and when I come back in a few months I'm going to know how to play that!" I don't know...I guess good playing inspires me no matter where it comes from. Still does.

I see what you're saying but I don't think my response is negative.

I think what it comes down to is that the sales staff should be aware that a large percentage of customers don't like it.

 

[nsmar4211]

I will have to say I've never had an employee get a bass down and start wailing on it before handing it to me.
Wait.......I've never had an employee get a bass down for me!
Which is sometimes a prob. considering I'm a little short to reach the top ones....
Also wish they'd have out a couple of empty stands/low hangers so I don't have to put one of them back to get another-some times I want to compare side by side and getting them down is a PITA and I hate to just lean them against a cab (that's asking for trouble). (hint to guitar center employees).

The bass and guitar guys are good though (West Palm, Florida store). Never had a major attitude out of any of them! If I ask one of them something, they answer or tell me if they don't know. And they're good about not hovering .

My only prob was with the one person... found out someone I know knows him too and says he's not usually like that. Well, I'm four for four so......maybe he's not like that with the male customers. It's all in the delivery...

Am very glad I don't work on commission. The customers who've asked if we do (I work retail) are relieved to find it out too. One said to me, "So he's not telling me to buy the expensive laser printer so he can make a higher commission?" Nope. In their case, that was the best printer for them......

Hey at least guitars aren't like printers. With printers, the cheaper printers cost you more later in ink costs (almost a direct ratio IME). With guitars, you still spend the same on strings no matter the brand (barring construction issues or oddball configurations) . Imagine if every guitar had its own strings and you had to get a salesguy to help you every time.....urhg...

 

[Ramsy]

Just to make it more fun, the music shop I work in has mystery shoppers and we get paid according to the mystery shop results. That means we HAVE to go up and say Hi to absolutely every single person that enters the shop within 30 seconds. That bugs the hell outta me when I'm in a music shop and I can't stand doing it to others.

Imagine my horror when I discovered I had failed a mystery shopper and lost $300 because it was an 18 year old girl in a $10 pair of jeans looking at a $250,000 grand piano.
I mean, gimme a break, it's startlingly obvious she's not going to buy the piano and considering we're the only dealer in the country there's no where else to go.
I know in my case it's a new corporate buyout that caused all this sillyness and it sounds like GC has gone the same way.
And now I'm required to bug the hell out of everyone within seconds just in case they're a sham customer on a blatantly stupid sham sale so I can get paid.

P.S. In the case of playing instruments I always ask if a customer wants me to play or if they want to have a try themselves. Beginners can often request you play because they're not confident but at least that way they've got the option.

A gripe from the other side of the coin.

 

[Tapout73]

So if a beginner went to a Rush concert would he be discouraged forever after seeing Geddy Lee?



If a person gets that easily discouraged, then perhaps music is not for them, and they probably just saved themselves a boatload of cash. Now if the seller just wanks on it for 30min in a clear show off, I'd slap him upside the head and say Gimmie the bass fool.

I don't want them wanking off on an instrument before they give it to me. I don't need 'inspiration' from them - I need helpful service. I'm there to get a feel for the instrument and decide on a purchase. I'm not there as an excuse for them to show off.

Further more, having been a beginner at one stage I can attest to the fact that having someone who has been playing for many years show off right before giving you the instrument, when they know you are looking to make your very first purchase, is quite discouraging.

 

[MrBorisSpider]

So if a beginner went to a Rush concert would he be discouraged forever after seeing Geddy Lee?



If a person gets that easily discouraged, then perhaps music is not for them, and they probably just saved themselves a boatload of cash. Now if the seller just wanks on it for 30min in a clear show off, I'd slap him upside the head and say Gimmie the bass fool.

You wouldn't touch the salesman. Keyboard warriors....

I have a feeling the salesman play the bass or the piano or whatever because they normally can't. It's like working with nude models, is working in a guitar shop; you can take their picture but you can't touch. When they offer you a chance...you jump all over it. Maybe some of them have the intent to crush you mentally, but I doubt that it's all of them.

Keep in mind working in sales is perhaps the most difficult job in western society. Sure, crab fisherman can be killed just like that, but they can swear at their captain and pick on the newbies. A lot of them have the '1000 yard stare' mentality. They KNOW the odds of you buying that $8,000 limited edition 5-string are slim to none...and slim just left.

They have to put up with Lemmy Jr and future Kirk Hammets all bloody day. They get screamed at by stupid customers over trivial things and have the trickle-down effect of **** from management. They see people scratching and denting and destroying pristine Warwicks and Sadowskys all day, which effects their commision. Pretty much all of them want to be doing something else. The pay is peanuts for what they have to put up with.

Salesmen have a bunch of ignorant, whiny customers who bitch and piss and moan and make their lives a living hell. The customer is NOT always right. In fact, you rarely are. That's why you're walking in, asking questions. It's hard to be nice to everybody, especially when you have to put up with some stupid kid who is smashing around that Fender you were eyeing or a 40-something with an entitlement complex like an eight-year-old (funny how some of the best-behaved customers I've delt with are 17 year old kids buying a Pay-as-you-go cell with their own money from some horrible burger joint gig instead of mommy's money).