Muting

[silky smoove]

I do not play with a pick, so palm muting does not really work.

For reference (and you probably already know this) palm muting when playing fingerstyle works just fine. It's not exclusively a technique for pick players. I do it quite often in my modern RnB group. Again, probably something you already know but wanted to clarify.

 

[jcopas]

Also there's left/fretting hand muting..

The way the phone app covered muting was in two separate "classes". One for left hand and one for right. However the way it was covered boiled down to the left hand mutes strings below (higher pitched) than the plucked string, while the right mutes strings above (lower pitched). The worst habit I am having to break on the left hand is pulling the fretting hand completely off all the strings when playing an open string. Mostly my hand seems small enough that it has to mute the unused, higher pitched strings.

To the point of adult learning, I've spent the last 20 years doing a job that is very, very linear in it's approaches to best practices. There may be 1,000 ways to skin a cat, but 900 will leave you painted in corner you don't want to be in. Of the remaining 100, 75 will do the same dependent on internal variables. 20 will work fine but create excessive overhead/managment cost. Of the remaining 5 you have to balance management overhead, against durability, against training costs/time. So I am used to learning in environment that is very much right way/wrong way. The idea of do something however you want is both unusual and stress inducing. That should also probably be written as music should provide me an opportunity for personal growth beyond just the musical skill itself.

 

[silky smoove]

This has probably already been addressed in the thread, but just in case: Are there any teachers in your area? A couple of lessons will probably straighten this out for you quite easily.

 

[jcopas]

This has probably already been addressed in the thread, but just in case: Are there any teachers in your area? A couple of lessons will probably straighten this out for you quite easily.

It hasn't, but I haven't had the time to dedicate to something like that. I have at least one more exam to pass by the end of January to keep my professional certifications up to date. After that I might be able to, but even then I would be looking at a minimum of a 30-45 minute drive one way to get into town for the lesson, and then back home. So even a 30 minute lesson is a 2 hour commitment, which is hard for me. I don't think I have ever allotted that much time towards a personal "want/goal" that didn't at least indirectly benefit the family. Not sense I got married and had kids anyway. I even scheduled my study/learning time for my degree and professional certifications until after 8 p.m. so that the youngest is in bed, and those have had some definite benefits in the way of salary increases.

 

[SteveCS]

There are lots of ways to mute. I like using the palm of my right hand. This doesn't affect your plucking in anyway.

It doesn't? It would be a complete change of hand position for me, which would affect my plucking. Do you have any photos showing how you do it?

It's a $&(_$# to photograph your own hand while playing, but this gives an idea. Just roll your wrist back.

View attachment 3603537 View attachment 3603536

For reference (and you probably already know this) palm muting when playing fingerstyle works just fine. It's not exclusively a technique for pick players. I do it quite often in my modern RnB group. Again, probably something you already know but wanted to clarify.

I'm struggling just a little with the assertions that palm muting has no impact on plucking when playing fingerstyle. Mechanically, its impossible to keep your fingers in a reasonable plucking attitude whilst your palm is over the strings. As @nnnnnn noted, it is a complete change of hand position, as evidenced by the pictures posted by @buldog5151bass. As you move more palm over the strings the fingers and the plucking action tend towards parallel to the strings. In doing so they lose dexterity, power and control.

 

[nnnnnn]

So even a 30 minute lesson is a 2 hour commitment, which is hard for me. I don't think I have ever allotted that much time towards a personal "want/goal" that didn't at least indirectly benefit the family. Not sense I got married and had kids anyway

This is getting off topic, but: being married and becoming a parent should not mean that you never get to do anything for yourself, and many psychologists would say that having a few hours to yourself at least once per week actually makes you a better spouse and parent because that time helps you recharge and avoid getting burnt out. Which helps with both family life and employment. (You should be making sure your spouse also gets some time to themselves each week.)

But if you can't get yourself over that psychological hurdle yet, you might consider trading off the time you would have spent playing bass at home in a given week for a drive to a good teacher - though follow a lesson with home practice in the next few days to work on whatever the teacher gives you. You don't have to commit to lessons every week forever, just try two or three to work on the basics.

I'm not a teacher, but maybe somebody on here could offer you a few lessons over Skype.

 

[OogieWaWa]

a job that is very, very linear

The idea of do something however you want is both unusual and stress inducing.

Yeah, my job IS all about adult learning now, and it came as a result of doing an extremely demanding linear job which I could no longer do physically (stress related tummy issues, in fact.) And indeed it is quite different. But here's the thing, you're not doing that linear thing with playing an instrument, which is very analog as you are finding out. I went through a similar ordeal when moving to a training position from being the on-line guy, and it was a bit stressful at first, standing in front of my expert peers and teaching them new things.

But like learning to play, it was also a big challenge, and that kept me going. I liked training so much that I went back and got my BS in Advanced Technical Training at 45 years old. Talk about stress! But again, it was the good kind.

So that stress is completely normal, but it's that way with anything you want to learn to do when you really want to do it well. It's just part of learning something new. It won't last long and get to enjoy the reward of accomplishment. Hang in there, since you already have figured out exactly what you need to work on, that's half the battle already. And you've obviously got the drive to do it. You will get there soon enough, so don't stress over the stress!

 

[silky smoove]

I'm struggling just a little with the assertions that palm muting has no impact on plucking when playing fingerstyle.

You quoted my post on this, and to be clear I am not stating that palm muting does not impact plucking when playing fingerstyle. It absolutely does. Your hand needs to be in a different position to do it cleanly and without straining your wrist/tendons. My comment that you quoted was with respect to an earlier comment that seemed to suggest that palm muting was a technique reserved for pick playing, which it’s not.

 

[SteveCS]

You quoted my post on this, and to be clear I am not stating that palm muting does not impact plucking when playing fingerstyle. It absolutely does. Your hand needs to be in a different position to do it cleanly and without straining your wrist/tendons. My comment that you quoted was with respect to an earlier comment that seemed to suggest that palm muting was a technique reserved for pick playing, which it’s not.

Understood. No doubt palm muting is used in other non-pick styles, e.g. slap instantly comes to mind. The OP was specifically asking about muting in fingerstyle, where I find the palm mute is of limited value due to the way it compromises too many of the other demands and features of the technique. I can see it's use in a modified guitar-like 'fingerpicking' style where the thumb is used for picking and might be more parallel with the strings. Obviously YMMV.

 

[4dog]

psychological hurdle??..you are to be commended for sacrificing your time and desires to raising your children and being there for your family...few do that anymore and sadly...society shows it.

BRAVO!

 

[nnnnnn]

psychological hurdle??.

I feel like you ignored the context in which I used that phrase. Commitment to family is great, and I never meant to imply otherwise. If you think commitment to family means never having any time for a personal hobby we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. Kids need space to do stuff on their own too, and with a bit of planning a family can make it all work.

 

[Biggbass]

try a wedge of foam

 

[silky smoove]

The OP was specifically asking about muting in fingerstyle, where I find the palm mute is of limited value due to the way it compromises too many of the other demands and features of the technique.

I disagree with this on the grounds that it’s easy to toggle between the two techniques. Muted or unmuted sounds are, in effect, constantly available, so the only compromise would stem from choosing to limit the use of either technique. In my modern RnB group I go back and forth between muted and “regular” quite frequently to match the dynamic of tunes. It’s something I picked up from watching Anthony Wellington.

 

[swink]

psychological hurdle??..you are to be commended for sacrificing your time and desires to raising your children and being there for your family...few do that anymore and sadly...society shows it.

BRAVO!

I feel like you ignored the context in which I used that phrase. Commitment to family is great, and I never meant to imply otherwise. If you think commitment to family means never having any time for a personal hobby we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. Kids need space to do stuff on their own too, and with a bit of planning a family can make it all work.

People should start reading what is written and not how it's written. The majority knows what "nnnnnn" meant, but there's always one who stumbles over a word.... message tho that one person: Read the ESSENCE and proceed...

 

[SteveCS]

I disagree with this on the grounds that it’s easy to toggle between the two techniques. Muted or unmuted sounds are, in effect, constantly available, so the only compromise would stem from choosing to limit the use of either technique. In my modern RnB group I go back and forth between muted and “regular” quite frequently to match the dynamic of tunes. It’s something I picked up from watching Anthony Wellington.

I agree that all techniques are available all the time, and switching/blending becomes second nature over time. I guess we all develop our approaches differently and use different methods for different things. If I need a muted sound, as opposed to the muting of unplayed strings which is what the OP was asking about, I tend to favour my left hand. I damp with unused fingers, if there are frets I play on the fret such that the fingertip acts as a mute, on fretless I might stop the string just shy of the fingerboard in the same way as a string-bass player can play beyond the fingerboard, or I might use any combination thereof.

 

[silky smoove]

I agree that all techniques are available all the time, and switching/blending becomes second nature over time. I guess we all develop our approaches differently and use different methods for different things. If I need a muted sound, as opposed to the muting of unplayed strings which is what the OP was asking about, I tend to favour my left hand. I damp with unused fingers, if there are frets I play on the fret such that the fingertip acts as a mute, on fretless I might stop the string just shy of the fingerboard in the same way as a string-bass player can play beyond the fingerboard, or I might use any combination thereof.

Yep, I’m the same. Well... except for the fretless part since I’m useless without frets

 

[jcopas]

This is getting off topic, but: being married and becoming a parent should not mean that you never get to do anything for yourself, and many psychologists would say that having a few hours to yourself at least once per week actually makes you a better spouse and parent because that time helps you recharge and avoid getting burnt out. Which helps with both family life and employment. (You should be making sure your spouse also gets some time to themselves each week.)

But if you can't get yourself over that psychological hurdle yet, you might consider trading off the time you would have spent playing bass at home in a given week for a drive to a good teacher - though follow a lesson with home practice in the next few days to work on whatever the teacher gives you. You don't have to commit to lessons every week forever, just try two or three to work on the basics.

I'm not a teacher, but maybe somebody on here could offer you a few lessons over Skype.

I may have not been clear, I don't leave myself without personal time. I do try to keep the family highest on the list. Instead I generally restrict my free time to when the kids are in bed or otherwise disengaged from us. That is generally later than I would be able to do in person lessons. Even still I would like to try some at a later date, just not now. The online services, such as Scott's Bass Lessons, seem like a better fit my lifestyle currently and I will likely go that direction for now.

I also tried some of the other suggestions, including the true "floating thumb". That one did seem to work much better for me than the movable anchor approach. One interesting thing seems to be that messing with different techniques back and forth has led to a hodgepodge in execution. But I think I'll be OK with that. Maybe if I keep not stressing over doing everything exactly the same every time, I'll even get to the point that I'm not bothered that the wrappings on my strings don't match the color of the bass or pickguard

 

[nnnnnn]

I may have not been clear, I don't leave myself without personal time. I do try to keep the family highest on the list. Instead I generally restrict my free time to when the kids are in bed or otherwise disengaged from us. That is generally later than I would be able to do in person lessons.
The online services, such as Scott's Bass Lessons, seem like a better fit my lifestyle currently

Okay, understood. There are some good lessons online. There are people who offer Skype lessons if you want more direct feedback (and that could give options for late night lessons - you could always find a Skype teacher who lives in another timezone).

One interesting thing seems to be that messing with different techniques back and forth has led to a hodgepodge in execution. But I think I'll be OK with that.

You'll get there.

I've been going back and forth a bit on muting lately too, because I recently started playing a bit of four-string bass and what I was used to doing on my five-string feels weird on the four-string.

Sometimes playing something that requires a lot of concentration on my fretting hand helps because I forget to think about plucking-hand muting and my subconscious just kind of takes over and does it.

Maybe if I keep not stressing over doing everything exactly the same every time, I'll even get to the point that I'm not bothered that the wrappings on my strings don't match the color of the bass or pickguard

I'm sure your technique will develop fine, but do any of us really get to the point where string wrap colours don't bother us?

 

[Watchootognbout]

Just keeping unused strings from ringing out sympathetically.

The floating thumb.

 

[Mark White]

messing with different techniques back and forth has led to a hodgepodge in execution. But I think I'll be OK with that.

When first starting, I spent quite some time researching different right hand techniques, then working with those techniques to see if any seemed to click for me. At that point, things were a mess, but once a technique felt 'right' to me (movable anchor) and I focussed on that, the mess sorted itself out.