My 60's Jazz Bass Am std mid issues

[Sparkl]

Hey guys.

I have an unusual problem.

Amongst other basses I own an USA standard 60's Jazz Bass 2012. I replaced the original custom 60s pups with Nordstrands NJ4. The rest is stock.

The issue is:

My rig now is an EBS Fafner (blue stripe) with a JJ ECS tube replacement (this was done before I bought the amp - in december last year) and a Barefaced Big Twin 2 cab. I also always use my Tri-Logic 18v xotic usa pedal.

I can't seem to shake off the mids with this bass. I literally have enough mids to export internationally. Whatever I do, if I don't want to make the bass sound thinner, there is always this mid presence going on that is just a tad too much for my taste.

Now yes, it is a rosewood jazz, and I use nickel strings (steel strings are to "sticky" for my fingers) and I believe that the original CTS pots are the 250k version.

My question is, how can I brighten up the sound so that it is more clean when I need it? There is always this compressed mid thing going on when playing this bass on my current rig.

On the other side, my Ibanez 1006SR and Stingray5 never sounded better.

Is it worth replacing some parts on my Jazz Bass to get rid of such prominent mids or should I start thinking about replacing the whole guitar for something more maple based?

The only thing that comes to my mind that could potentially help shaping the sound on my Jazz Bass is:

replacing the bridge (perhaps Badass or something)
switching from nickel strings to stainless steel
replacing the neck
replacing the pots with a 500k pot

If I didn't forget about something that's it.

One thing to note: My cab is now around 2 weeks old. It did quite a few rehearsals and gigs already but I assume it is not yet well broken in. Is this mid presence possibly coming from the cab instead and is going to settle down (neo speakers) or is it the amp?

Don't get me wrong, I also like this mid based sound but I find it difficult to get a pleasing tone for something more mainstream - like ballads for example, or blues, or lets say country. I am not searching for the ampeg tone but I would love to be able to get myself some more hi fi clarity instead of mid dominance all the way.

 

[Gorn]

You should probably start with a string change.

And what bass is it? A 60s American Standard? Do you have a picture?

 

[Sparkl]

You should probably start with a string change.

And what bass is it? A 60s American Standard? Do you have a picture?

The bass is a 60's american standard yes.

Here is the picture together with the whole rig:

Add: The bass itself plays very good though. I have carefully selected it amongst many Jazz basses I have tried before I bought this one. Great sustain and controlled tone. My opinion on this is that since I have moved on from my previous rig (GK 1001RBII and SWR 610 Goliath Senior) to a more hi-fi and even more modern sounding rig the natural sound of this bass has showed up itself even more. So I have to work on it I guess.

As for the strings: I have tried a couple of stainless steel strings and they all feel too dry and sticky for my taste. If I was able to get a set of steel strings that are really smooth to play I guess that would solve a lot of my mid presence issues. Mind though, I live in Europe so a lot of those fancy USA strings aren't available here. We have other options though (Thomastik for example but it is not really what I need).

 

[Sparkl]

I am also suspicious of the ECC83S JJ tube that is currently installed in the amp. Seems like the Fafner derives a lot from the tube sound since the gain and drive play an important role in the sound. I have yet to check which tube this amp was designed around but it may also be that the JJ is just too mid intense for this amp.

Could I be correct?

P.S.: Perhaps I should have posted this thread under the amps and cabs section. But since my issue includes both amps and basses I have no idea where to post this thread in order to be as relevant to the forum discussion field as possible.

 

[UNICORN BASS]

Bit of a head scratcher. I myself am partial to 500k pots.

 

[Sparkl]

Bit of a head scratcher. I myself am partial to 500k pots.

I have never actually gotten myself to compare 250k and 500k pots. I know that the 500k pots extend in the treble section more and perhaps I do not want this. I have plenty of treble as it is now. Although this could be controlled. What I am after is sound brightening as in decreasing the mids to even out with bass and treble.

I miss my contour knob on my GK even though it was useless for the most part.

 

[Trouztrouz]

I have moved on from my previous rig (GK 1001RBII and SWR 610 Goliath Senior) to a more hi-fi and even more modern sounding rig the natural sound of this bass has showed up itself even more. So I have to work on it I guess.

Trying to get away from the "natural sound of your bass" is swimming upstream. Maybe try another one with active electronics?

 

[Sparkl]

Trying to get away from the "natural sound of your bass" is swimming upstream. Maybe try another one with active electronics?

While I agree I am still quietly hoping that I could possibly alter the sounding just by a bit. It would help already. Otherwise I love this bass sound especially for some RnB or soul stuff.

I am already looking at some P basses and I knew from the start that a maple Jazz Bass would be highly preferred in my bass collection as well.

As for active electronics - there are many basses out there, as I said my Ibanez 1006SR sounds great through this rig (even though I am one of those guys that did not believe that Ibanez is actually capable of making a good bass - well I was wrong I admit ) and so does my Stingray5 ceramic.

I have to try some Yamahas for that modern sterile sound.

 

[Malak the Mad]

You should probably start with a string change.

This is always my first, go-to technique to alter the "character" of a bass.

As for the strings: I have tried a couple of stainless steel strings and they all feel too dry and sticky for my taste. If I was able to get a set of steel strings that are really smooth to play I guess that would solve a lot of my mid presence issues. Mind though, I live in Europe so a lot of those fancy USA strings aren't available here. We have other options though (Thomastik for example but it is not really what I need).

Do you have access to Ernie Ball Cobalts? They're rather aggressive sounding, but have the classic Ernie Ball "slinkiness" to them. If not, and if you're interested, I'd be happy to send you one of my extra .100 gauge sets.

 

[murphy]

out of anything, I would say you do not like the sound of your cab
maybe a more hifi mid scoop type cab would suit your needs
I am more partial to ten loaded cabs....I know they say driver size has nothing to do with sound
but my favorite sounding cabs always have tens
I did not like the sound of my Begantino HT112

 

[Dave W]

How do you have the pickup blend set?

I am already looking at some P basses and I knew from the start that a maple Jazz Bass would be highly preferred in my bass collection as well.

If you think your J bass has too much mids I don't think moving to a P is going to help.

 

[Sparkl]

out of anything, I would say you do not like the sound of your cab
maybe a more hifi mid scoop type cab would suit your needs
I am more partial to ten loaded cabs....I know they say driver size has nothing to do with sound
but my favorite sounding cabs always have tens
I did not like the sound of my Begantino HT112

That may also be the case. Although I am liking the cab for its amazing dispersion and clarity. The cab itself is very hifi on its own and has a very flat response. It may be that I am getting something wrong when setting the eq for this cab right but I have not yet managed to get my sound on the stage. Although I absolutely feel it is possible to do so.

 

[Sparkl]

How do you have the pickup blend set?



If you think your J bass has too much mids I don't think moving to a P is going to help.

I just got myself a Pbass and it sounds amazing. Much more clear, rounded, soft and warm. And I feel much better grooving with it than I do with my jazz bass.

As for pups, I use all blends for certain things. I tend to use the bridge pickup only when I am soloing. For playing jamiroquai or something similar I pretty much always use either both pups or the neck only slightly rolled off to get more of the bridge burp but not completely loosing the bottom at the same time.

 

[Sparkl]

This is always my first, go-to technique to alter the "character" of a bass.



Do you have access to Ernie Ball Cobalts? They're rather aggressive sounding, but have the classic Ernie Ball "slinkiness" to them. If not, and if you're interested, I'd be happy to send you one of my extra .100 gauge sets.

Thanks for your offer but I think that sending the strings will be a slight problem since I am located in Europe

And no, where I live I usually only get the regular slinks and I tend to not like them much. Never tried the cobalt though and I could order them from an online store or something. I absolutely love lakland strings for their softness.

 

[mikeswals]

Why did you change your pickups? I didnt see an explanation for that... did it have this tone with the originals too?

Also, there isnt a model called American Standard 60's. Its either and an Am Standard, or its a reissue. (Its the Am Standard in the pic)

If you want to try a string that has a bit of a scooped sound to them then DR highbeams or sunbeams, or R Cocco's.

 

[wvbass]

As for pups, I use all blends for certain things. I tend to use the bridge pickup only when I am soloing. For playing jamiroquai or something similar I pretty much always use either both pups or the neck only slightly rolled off to get more of the bridge burp but not completely loosing the bottom at the same time.

I've used those Nordstrands you've got in your bass. They aren't unusually mid-heavy; they sound like jazz bass pickups.

If you favor the bridge pickup, it is going to be a little thinner sounding with heavier mids. If you are getting a very mid-heavy sound with both pickups on full, are you certain that you don't have the pickups wired out of phase? You should have some mid-scoop with both pickups on full. If you have pronounced mids and are losing low end, you probably have them wired wrong.

 

[Marikk]

"If you are getting a very mid-heavy sound with both pickups on full, are you certain that you don't have the pickups wired out of phase? You should have some mid-scoop with both pickups on full. If you have pronounced mids and are losing low end, you probably have them wired wrong.

This! Definitely check the wiring and cheap options before going out and spending more money. Its the little things that kill

 

[Sparkl]

Why did you change your pickups? I didnt see an explanation for that... did it have this tone with the originals too?

Also, there isnt a model called American Standard 60's. Its either and an Am Standard, or its a reissue. (Its the Am Standard in the pic)

If you want to try a string that has a bit of a scooped sound to them then DR highbeams or sunbeams, or R Cocco's.

Yeah I know about the models, I just wanted to point out that I this bass has a 60's pickup arrangement.

The explanation for switching the custom shop pickups was that I didn't like the coils sticking out of the pickup and I had big trouble with clipping (sometimes I tend to dig really deep), especially while slapping.

Switching to "normal" single coils made a big difference. As I said, this mid heavy thing wasn't this apparent when I had my GK/SWR rig, but now switching to fafner/barefaced it really shows. I guess the rig is much more clear plus the fafner has much more mid voiced sound. Now, I have been told that the Nordstrands have a really nice, slightly compressed sound and I went for it, since I don't have pickups lying around to switch all day. Do you think there is a better choice? I am mainly looking for a nice smooth and flat tone so that it is EQ "shapeable". I need the bass to be versatile all the way from jazz to rock and hip hop so I need some flat ground to start from.

As I have already said, I now have a Pbass on test (wanted to buy one anyways) and it works really good.

Thanks for the string option info!

 

[Sparkl]

I've used those Nordstrands you've got in your bass. They aren't unusually mid-heavy; they sound like jazz bass pickups.

If you favor the bridge pickup, it is going to be a little thinner sounding with heavier mids. If you are getting a very mid-heavy sound with both pickups on full, are you certain that you don't have the pickups wired out of phase? You should have some mid-scoop with both pickups on full. If you have pronounced mids and are losing low end, you probably have them wired wrong.

Yeah well I did not do the wiring, a friend of mine who deals with that stuff did it for me. It may be the case, perhaps I should get them checked at my local luthier (I am not a tech guy and never wired pickups in guitars).

Its not that I lose low end (although my F# and F has a bit lower output than the others but I am pretty sure this is not the pickups wiring fault), it is more that I cannot shake the mids away for some specific occasions (for example, playing a ballad where I prefer a very clean and sterile smooth sound as opposed to harsh screaming mids). As I said I have somehow tamed those frequencies and now it works much better but there is something missing now. You know, every time you take something away from the bass sound, it makes the sound thinner. So it makes me wonder whether it is the instrument itself that is just built this way or is there something else.

I just find it difficult to believe that a Barefaced cab and EBS fafner wouldn't be able to produce a nice warm but smooth (gooey) tone. With the pbass I have on test, I get a lot smoother sound, I can shape it anyhow I want. But it is a pbass, it is always going to sound a bit dirty (which is fine), but I need another bass that can deliver that hifi pristine smoothness. Then I am set for life

 

[Sparkl]

I actually found a video that is a great example of a problem I am dealing with.



If you listen closely, you will notice that "middy" pop every time he slaps with his thumb. Yes, it is also an effect of a compressor. But in my case I also get this without any compressor enabled. Now imagine this "mud" being constantly present in the tone, not just when I slap with the thumb. This, plus the strange high mids that come screaming out when my system works under a bit higher volume (not stadium volume mind you). His bass is maple and all that so it obviously has a brighter sound which shows. My jbass is rosewood so I am getting even more of this thing which annoys me.

Funny enough, my pbass has a maple neck and works great with this rig. My maple Stingray also.

I have been thinking since the fafner is actually only a 440W head under 4 ohms, perhaps I would need more headroom. I am currently fiddling with an external poweramp idea and I got a 1500W Crown on test from a friend of mine who runs a music store. Just our of curiosity. And of course the headroom is great yet then I find something missing that the fafner had by using its power amp. Jesus christ