My amp is petite and still too big!

[gtirard]

I went through all the stages, and owned (played) probably all possible combinations and speaker sizes on every possible stage size. When I consider everything that is important to me (many of which are mentioned in this thread), such as power, occupied stage area, weight, monitoring, sound quality, accessories, drummer loudnes etc. I figured out that I only needed one 2x10'' cabinet.

At the moment it is the lightest and for me the best on the market in all the listed aspects. I don't think anyone here has mentioned it yet, but it's an Italian GR bass carbon cabinet. Mine is GRBass AT210V+. 600W, 19.4lbs (8.8kg), 103 dB SPL. It's not cheap, it's 1300 euros in Europe but it is worth every penny in my opinion. Small footprint, lightest possible, loud enough for any situation, beautiful sound, it has it all. It is completely irrelevant which head and how much power you will plug in it, as much as You love the sound.

I've owned a GR 210, it sounded great but after comparing it to a Barefaced 1x12 I eventually sold it because I prefered the sound of tha later, for an almost identical weight.

 

[wjcstp]

Our band has drums and 3 guitars, we play mostly small club shows with good PA support and I’ve found a Berg 112 to be plenty for those stages.

 

[Audiomicrowave]

I've reached that place that covers all my needs of where I frequently play.

• Quilter Bass Block V803 (less than 4lbs)
• Trace Elliot Elf head that usually serves as my backup (1.6lbs)
• 1x10 Trace Elliott Elf Cabinet (16lbs)
• 2x10 Ampeg SVT (26lbs)
• 4x10 Ampeg cabinet, not sure of the model offhand, but my back says it is many lbs.

Most of the time, it's the Quilter and the 2x10 with PA support. It does all I need with my country gig (3 vox, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass, drums) as well as my classic rock/blues gig (2-3 vox, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, keys, bass, drums). I never have to push the amp very hard...maybe 1/3 of the way up.

Hope you find this info helpful.

B

 

[J Wilson]

You will have to sort out what size amp or cabinet works best in terms of physical size and weight, but I would ALWAYS advise . . .

1) More power than you think you need (because one day you WILL need it, and you can always turn an amp down, but if it's too small, you're done), and . . .

2) Either a combo or head that will allow you to run the combo with an extension cabinet or a head and two cabinets, related to my number one. It's an easy way to gain a little more volume without changing anything else.

I learned both of these the hard way.

Be smarter than I was.

 

[Yahboy]

We are a alternative rock band with 2 boss katana 100w and a pretty "normal" drummer. I decided to get a very reasonable 2x10 fender rumble and a 500w class d amp. (250w would have been enough but 500w version was on a discount). I am absolutely satisfied with the quality but in retroperspective I wished I would have gotten a smaller and lighter amp. The cabinet, even though it sounds great, is 17kg. I never set the volume past a quarter when reheasing. We played quite a lot of gigs locally, mostly small stages but also medium sized clubs.

-never did I not have powerful PA to support me on any location, my amp always functioned as a stage monitor basicly.
-If there is one thing I cant have enough of on small stages, it is space. Why bring anything bigger than 1x12 and put it on a beer tray?
-on bigger stages there was usually a 4x10+head backline free to use

I recently played a relatively big club stage and the other bassist brought a tiny 1x12 Mini CMD Markbass combo. That was more than enough. (I know the thing is 500w but the vol was also set so 1/3...maybe) There were at least 2 other venues that offered a small bass combo as a backline and it always was enough, even for metal bands. Is the era of 4x10 and even 2x10 over for most people? (not talking about very big stages, which most of us dont encounter, lets be honest) PAs in clubs sound gooood these days!

opinions appreciated on the topic! should I sell my 2x10 and see how small I can go? Maybe a rumble 100 combo will even be enough?

If one are not enough, get another unit then chain both via send/return.

 

[Yahboy]

We are a alternative rock band with 2 boss katana 100w and a pretty "normal" drummer. I decided to get a very reasonable 2x10 fender rumble and a 500w class d amp. (250w would have been enough but 500w version was on a discount). I am absolutely satisfied with the quality but in retroperspective I wished I would have gotten a smaller and lighter amp. The cabinet, even though it sounds great, is 17kg. I never set the volume past a quarter when reheasing. We played quite a lot of gigs locally, mostly small stages but also medium sized clubs.

-never did I not have powerful PA to support me on any location, my amp always functioned as a stage monitor basicly.
-If there is one thing I cant have enough of on small stages, it is space. Why bring anything bigger than 1x12 and put it on a beer tray?
-on bigger stages there was usually a 4x10+head backline free to use

I recently played a relatively big club stage and the other bassist brought a tiny 1x12 Mini CMD Markbass combo. That was more than enough. (I know the thing is 500w but the vol was also set so 1/3...maybe) There were at least 2 other venues that offered a small bass combo as a backline and it always was enough, even for metal bands. Is the era of 4x10 and even 2x10 over for most people? (not talking about very big stages, which most of us dont encounter, lets be honest) PAs in clubs sound gooood these days!

opinions appreciated on the topic! should I sell my 2x10 and see how small I can go? Maybe a rumble 100 combo will even be enough?

Rumble 100 or RB112 , but stacked are necessary ! It is all about the LOOK rather than volume .....

 

[_Obra_]

I've owned a GR 210, it sounded great but after comparing it to a Barefaced 1x12 I eventually sold it because I prefered the sound of tha later, for an almost identical weight.

When shopping for GR210 i only other option was Barefaced 1x12'', but I decided for GR. Still don't know was I right or wrong. Probably not wrong with either choice of these two.

Have You got a chance to compare them? Have You played both of them? Is the one louder than another?

 

[gtirard]

When shopping for GR210 i only other option was Barefaced 1x12'', but I decided for GR. Still don't know was I right or wrong. Probably not wrong with either choice of these two.

Have You got a chance to compare them? Have You played both of them? Is the one louder than another?

Ah, ah, interesting question.

Yes, I've owned both. Both sounded great, but slightly different. The GR was very neutral, very detailed and articulate, almost "hi-fi" and didn't lack low end at all. The Barefaced had the same qualities, plus a little extra "oh my god this is soooo good" ompf that I became addicted to, so I ended-up selling the GR when I have noticed that after one year, each time I had to choose one I took the Barefaced. I'm not saying it sounds better, only that I prefered it, your opinion may differ.

Regarding the weight, the GR was slightly lighter than the BF, but it wasn't night and day, and I was able to take any of them to a gig using the public transports (I have no car, not even a driving license ).

I wrote a post about these 2 cabs, initially it was a rant about how GR Bass exagerate their specs. Well, they are equaly loud, even if GR Bass claims higher sensitivity.

Thread 'GR Bass or Barefaced - Best efficiency? [a small experiment]'

Mar 23, 2024

I have these 2 cabs that I love equaly: Barefaced Super Compact (1x12) and GR Bass NF210V.
Both are super lightweight and have a great sound: loud, uncolored, detailed, great low end…

But I was intrigued, because in theory, the GR Bass 210 (sensitivity 103 dB) is supposed to be significantly more efficient than the Barefaced 1x12 (sensitivity 97 dB).

I didn't think there was such a big difference, so I made this little experience: I sent the same bass line with the same amp and same settings to each cab and I measured the loudness with a dB meter app on my smartphone.

But...

• gtirard
• Replies: 91
• Forum: Amps and Cabs [BG]

• 

Both great souding cabs, lightweight and loud. It's a matter of personal taste.

Another difference is that GR Bass Carbon Fiber are lightweight at the expense of a pretty fragile structure, whearas the Barefaced are really rock solid, like you could litterally throw them down a truck without harming them.

 

[brocco]

Here is what I bought this week on sale for a day $999.99, 30 lbs small size for a 2x10 combo. Made in Italy and sounds very good.

Markbass MB58R CMD 102 PURE Black | eBay

The Markbass MB58R CMD 102 PURE bass combo features 2x10" neodymium custom speakers delivering lows that are tight and fat with a pleasing, earthy growl and clean, clear highs from the hi-fi tweeter. Plus, weighing in at only 30 lb., this combo is easy to transport to any gig.

www.ebay.com

 

[_Obra_]

Ah, ah, interesting question.

Yes, I've owned both. Both sounded great, but slightly different. The GR was very neutral, very detailed and articulate, almost "hi-fi" and didn't lack low end at all. The Barefaced had the same qualities, plus a little extra "oh my god this is soooo good" ompf that I became addicted to, so I ended-up selling the GR when I have noticed that after one year, each time I had to choose one I took the Barefaced. I'm not saying it sounds better, only that I prefered it, your opinion may differ.

Regarding the weight, the GR was slightly lighter than the BF, but it wasn't night and day, and I was able to take any of them to a gig using the public transports (I have no car, not even a driving license ).

I wrote a post about these 2 cabs, initially it was a rant about how GR Bass exagerate their specs. Well, they are equaly loud, even if GR Bass claims higher sensitivity.

Thread 'GR Bass or Barefaced - Best efficiency? [a small experiment]'

Mar 23, 2024

I have these 2 cabs that I love equaly: Barefaced Super Compact (1x12) and GR Bass NF210V.
Both are super lightweight and have a great sound: loud, uncolored, detailed, great low end…

But I was intrigued, because in theory, the GR Bass 210 (sensitivity 103 dB) is supposed to be significantly more efficient than the Barefaced 1x12 (sensitivity 97 dB).

I didn't think there was such a big difference, so I made this little experience: I sent the same bass line with the same amp and same settings to each cab and I measured the loudness with a dB meter app on my smartphone.

But...

• gtirard
• Replies: 91
• Forum: Amps and Cabs [BG]

• 

Both great souding cabs, lightweight and loud. It's a matter of personal taste.

Another difference is that GR Bass Carbon Fiber are lightweight at the expense of a pretty fragile structure, whearas the Barefaced are really rock solid, like you could litterally throw them down a truck without harming them.

Thanks for Your answer
I just read few posts from ''GR Bass or Barefaced - Best efficiency?''

I bought GR carbon for more than one reason. First one was lightweight because I had a back surgery and can not lift heavy weight. The other one was 103dB, because like You, I wanted to pair it with my 50W tube amp and I thought it would be loud enough for gigs next to a loud drummer. My second reason turned out to be incorrect. It just wasn't loud enough with Ampeg tube 50W even with daclared 103dB. So I sold the Ampeg and got another amp. Now I create my desired sound in a different way, but still satisfied with it.

However, I'm sorry I don't have an opportunity to try Barefaced

 

[Gervais Cote]

Ah, ah, interesting question.

Yes, I've owned both. Both sounded great, but slightly different. The GR was very neutral, very detailed and articulate, almost "hi-fi" and didn't lack low end at all. The Barefaced had the same qualities, plus a little extra "oh my god this is soooo good" ompf that I became addicted to, so I ended-up selling the GR when I have noticed that after one year, each time I had to choose one I took the Barefaced. I'm not saying it sounds better, only that I prefered it, your opinion may differ.

Regarding the weight, the GR was slightly lighter than the BF, but it wasn't night and day, and I was able to take any of them to a gig using the public transports (I have no car, not even a driving license ).

I wrote a post about these 2 cabs, initially it was a rant about how GR Bass exagerate their specs. Well, they are equaly loud, even if GR Bass claims higher sensitivity.

Thread 'GR Bass or Barefaced - Best efficiency? [a small experiment]'

Mar 23, 2024

I have these 2 cabs that I love equaly: Barefaced Super Compact (1x12) and GR Bass NF210V.
Both are super lightweight and have a great sound: loud, uncolored, detailed, great low end…

But I was intrigued, because in theory, the GR Bass 210 (sensitivity 103 dB) is supposed to be significantly more efficient than the Barefaced 1x12 (sensitivity 97 dB).

I didn't think there was such a big difference, so I made this little experience: I sent the same bass line with the same amp and same settings to each cab and I measured the loudness with a dB meter app on my smartphone.

But...

• gtirard
• Replies: 91
• Forum: Amps and Cabs [BG]

• 

Both great souding cabs, lightweight and loud. It's a matter of personal taste.

Another difference is that GR Bass Carbon Fiber are lightweight at the expense of a pretty fragile structure, whearas the Barefaced are really rock solid, like you could litterally throw them down a truck without harming them.

You just got me on the robustness right there ! On the long term, I prefer by far an ugly but indestructible cab to a fancy one that starts to rattle after a few gigs.

Oh, and the Barefaced doesn’t look bad at all, it’s just a kind of an image of an abused vintage cab it might eventually become if you know what I mean.

 

[gtirard]

You just got me on the robustness right there ! On the long term, I prefer by far an ugly but indestructible cab to a fancy one that starts to rattle after a few gigs.

Oh, and the Barefaced doesn’t look bad at all, it’s just a kind of an image of an abused vintage cab it might eventually become if you know what I mean.

They offer a lot of finish options. Almost all 12 inch cabs have this "rugged" finish, but you can choose a grill cloth instead of the metal grill (black or silver standard grill cloth, or a choice of custom ones). The 10 inch cabs and a few 12 inch models are covered with more classic tolex (black by default, custom colors available).

 

[Gervais Cote]

They offer a lot of finish options. Almost all 12 inch cabs have this "rugged" finish, but you can choose a grill cloth instead of the metal grill (black or silver standard grill cloth, or a choice of custom ones). The 10 inch cabs and a few 12 inch models are covered with more classic tolex (black by default, custom colors available).

Experience told me a "rugged" plastic paint finish and metal grill is the way to go.

 

[boilingTheDead]

I have Berg 112, 210 and a Barefaced One10 cabs, using a ToneHammer500. There is virtually no distance in the stage space taken by the 210 and 112, the 110 does take up less space but the difference is very nominal. For me, the 210 works better, sits higher so easier to hear, sounds great, is slightly heavier but well balanced and easier to carry. IMHO a 210 is not too big and having ample headroom is important. I do have the luxury of leaving the 112 at the drummers so I do not have to carry a cab for rehearsals.

I'm even considering the Rumble 100, thats significatly smaller than the 2x12. Not sure if that will be enough watts though.

 

[boilingTheDead]

Well, I would say this.

Are you playing select venues and that is what you are limiting it to?

Does your band have its own Pa with good subs?

I ask this because although we have shows that have Pa support, many of the shows we do are simplistic set up with our own Pa and typcially no subs unless it’s a larger show.

I have never been able to get away with a single 12 and I have a Barefaced supercompact with either a Mesa wd, Aggie ag or gk1200 fusion. I play with a group of extremely professional musicians playing rock at a spicey db level. Nothing crazy, but it is decently loud.

I would fail on the safe side and keep your “big” setup as it’s pretty tame to begin with (remember your amp is actually only 350 watts since you are running only at 8ohms)and if you change bands you might find yourself underwhelmed really quick.

We do not have a PA with good subs. The only situation where the low end came purely from my amp were outdoor gigs. At the biggest one I was about 1/3 of the dial. Very interesting about the that I am actually using 350w! Thx...

 

[boilingTheDead]

Trying to gauge how much power or volume is happening from the position of your volume control is a fool's errand at best. There is no way you can account for all the variables involved and come up with a good answer with only that information. Even when an amp/cab combination starts to distort, there are multiple electrical and mechanical mechanisms at play that can cause distortion, so even then you don't really know what is limiting things. The only way to know what is actually going on power wise is to have real measuring devices (a voltmeter, an oscilloscope, etc) measuring the waveforms.

Yes that is soo true.

 

[Kaa]

I got a MBcmd121 after my old SWR wm10 sometimes wasn’t loud enough.
From 80 watt to 350-500, should be enough. Nearly the same size, but lighter.
Got the extra New York cab, to be safe. Used that 2 times only, larger venue.
So the single combo is really enough. Markbass is a lot more expensive as Fender rumble 100 though.
Seen those used a lot with PA, good sounds.
View attachment 7380952View attachment 7380954

That's a nice 'burst. What is it?

 

[boilingTheDead]

17 kg is "too heavy". OK. When I was young, I had an amp that had to be carried in 3 pieces (a head and 2 cabs). It was about 100kg in weight - each cab was 37kg (82 pounds). It put out a whopping 100 watts, but given the efficiency of the speakers, and the fact that they actually went down to 40Hz (they didn't have to be drive hard to do that) it was likely as loud as your current rig. Perhaps louder.

So, you want a smaller amp. If you do that, for a while you will feel like you made a great choice....until that one day when..... it just isn't enough. Trust me, after that experience, having enough for that one big gig is absolutely worth hauling a few extra kg on your other gigs. Getting caught underpowered on a gig is a HORRIBLE experience.

An amp run well below its capabilities is a reliable machine. One run to its limits will fail (only a matter of when, not it), and it won't be at a good time. Keep your current amp.

I hear you. Thats exectly what Im afriad of if I go too underwowered. But what big gig would not have PA with subs?

The largest gig with the crappiest PA I was about 1/3 on the Vol dial. If it is actually true, that with the 500w head and 8 ohm cab im using 350w, thats really not a lot of volume used. Anyways, Im pretty sure I will not go for the rumble 100, because THAT might actually be underpowered in these type of Situations, even if they are rare.

The weight doesnt matter for me. Im actually 25 and get compared to heavy furniture or doorman more than most people.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

We are a alternative rock band with 2 boss katana 100w and a pretty "normal" drummer. I decided to get a very reasonable 2x10 fender rumble and a 500w class d amp. (250w would have been enough but 500w version was on a discount). I am absolutely satisfied with the quality but in retroperspective I wished I would have gotten a smaller and lighter amp. The cabinet, even though it sounds great, is 17kg. I never set the volume past a quarter when reheasing. We played quite a lot of gigs locally, mostly small stages but also medium sized clubs.

-never did I not have powerful PA to support me on any location, my amp always functioned as a stage monitor basicly.
-If there is one thing I cant have enough of on small stages, it is space. Why bring anything bigger than 1x12 and put it on a beer tray?
-on bigger stages there was usually a 4x10+head backline free to use

I recently played a relatively big club stage and the other bassist brought a tiny 1x12 Mini CMD Markbass combo. That was more than enough. (I know the thing is 500w but the vol was also set so 1/3...maybe) There were at least 2 other venues that offered a small bass combo as a backline and it always was enough, even for metal bands. Is the era of 4x10 and even 2x10 over for most people? (not talking about very big stages, which most of us dont encounter, lets be honest) PAs in clubs sound gooood these days!

opinions appreciated on the topic! should I sell my 2x10 and see how small I can go? Maybe a rumble 100 combo will even be enough?

The general move is towards just enough of whatever for your personal stage volume. The days of mega rigs more suitable for providing all the bass needed in a room seating up to a thousand people is long over. Me? I have a 112 cab powered with a 300 watt amp that can cover a lot of applications.

 

[boilingTheDead]

We played in literal ruins of clubs (animals living in the PA, spiderwebs are the cable management) and still the PAs had enough Low end. The high end and the sound quality sucked, but the low end was there in clubs. I guess EDM forces clubs to invest.