GR Bass or Barefaced - Best efficiency? [a small experiment]

[gtirard]

I have these 2 cabs that I love equaly: Barefaced Super Compact (1x12) and GR Bass NF210V.
Both are super lightweight and have a great sound: loud, uncolored, detailed, great low end…

But I was intrigued, because in theory, the GR Bass 210 (sensitivity 103 dB) is supposed to be significantly more efficient than the Barefaced 1x12 (sensitivity 97 dB).

I didn't think there was such a big difference, so I made this little experience: I sent the same bass line with the same amp and same settings to each cab and I measured the loudness with a dB meter app on my smartphone.

But before comparing these 2, I compared the Barefaced Super Compact (sensitivity 97 dB) with the Barefaced One10 (sensitivity 95 dB).

To my ears, the 1x12 was noticeably louder than the 1x10, and the dB meter app showed a 4 dB difference.

Then I made the same test with the GR Bass 210. It didn't seem to be any louder than the Barefaced 1x12, and the dB meter app confirmed the same measure in spite of the 6 dB theorical difference if you just look at the sensitivity figures on their website.

I think we should never compare specifications of gear from different brands, because we don't know what measurement protocols they use - some brands are honest, others are "optimistic". It makes sense to compare the specs of different models of the same brand, but avoid comparing the specs from different brands.

Barefaced One10 measures:


Barefaced Super Compact measures:


GR Bass NF210V measures:


Thoughts?

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Readings I see listed are often at 1khz at 1 meter. I might expect their sensitivity curves to differ at lower freqs. The GR's higher sensitivity may be more evident at higher freqs. Just guessing.

 

[gtirard]

Readings I see listed are often at 1khz at 1 meter. I might expect their sensitivity curves to differ at lower freqs. The GR's higher sensitivity may be more evident at higher freqs. Just guessing.

Do you mean that the GR is more efficient, but that it was less visible at the low frequencies that I have tested?

I don't think so. I think those 2 cabs are equaly loud, but Barefaced and GR Bass don't use the same measurement standards, which gives the false impression that the GR is louder.

I'm not technical, I won't go into a real serious and scientific measurement to prove it. I don't want to convince anybody either, we're all free to believe what we want. But I know what my ears heard, confirmed by the measure of my phone, and for me those 2 cabs are equaly loud. I love GR Bass, but I think their marketing is super "optimistic" and I'll take everything they say with a grain of salt in the future…

 

[gtirard]

I mean, one of the reasons why I bought the GR was for its great sensitivity because one of my amps is a 50W tube amp, I thought it would be loud enough for gigs with. It turns out this combo is loud enough to gig with (for small and medium gigs), which is great because the amp only weight 4.2 kg (not bad for a tube amp) and the cab 8 kg.

I'm just a little bit upset by my credulity, because the Barefaced is equaly loud, but I don't blame GR Bass. I needed 2 cabs anyway so everything is fine.

But if anyone hesitates between the 2, and wants to buy the GR because he thinks it's louder, I'm here to say "no it's not". That's all.

 

[Wasnex]

FYI, The BF specs appear to have some internal conflict.

Super Compact Specs (from webpage):

PISTONIC SENSITIVITY
97dB - only fractionally less than our very loud 1x15" Compact
USABLE FREQUENCY RANGE
37Hz - 4kHz

RECOMMENDED AMP POWER
150-600W RMS
MAX CONTINUOUS BROADBAND & LF SPL
127dB - similar to what a high quality 2x12" or 4x10" cab can manage before the lows fail to keep up with the mids

No idea where they get 127dB?

Assuming the cab can handle 600W (which is probably optimistic) and the sensitivity is 97dB 1W/1m:

Calculated SPL = [Log(600) x 10] + 97 = 124.78dB.

To get 127dB from 97dB sensitivity requires 1,000W of power handling. Here is the math:

Calculated SPL = [Log(1000) x 10] + 97 = 127dB.


To get 127dB with 600W requires higher sensitivity:

127 - [Log(600) x 10] = 99.22dB 1W/1m.

 

[Wasnex]

I think we should never compare specifications of gear from different brands, because we don't know what measurement protocols they use - some brands are honest, others are "optimistic". It makes sense to compare the specs of different models of the same brand, but avoid comparing the specs from different brands.

In a perfect world, I would agree. Not only with comparisons across different brands, but also with comparisons across different products lines within the same brand.


Unfortunately the manufacturer provided specs are often the only thing we have to base a purchase decision on. This is why I say they are only useful as ballpark estimates. It's also why I think it's best to choose a option where the calculated figures exceed your minimum requirements.

 

[Wasnex]

To make it easier to compare:

 

[klattman]

GR specs do seem optimistic. I’ve not been able to get what I expect out of them. Crazy light though so if they are enough that’s what I bring.

It’s a trip to have someone help with load out and pick one up. I have to be careful they don’t throw it by accident.

 

[gtirard]

To make it easier to compare:
View attachment 5395220

Thanks Wasnex.

I think the biggest number is not very significant because it give the "instant" value, which I couldn't capture at the exact same exact moment for all 3 cabs. I think the average value is more meaningful (One10 -> 66, Super Compact and NF210V -> 70).

 

[Wasnex]

I think the biggest number is not very significant because it give the "instant" value, which I couldn't capture at the exact same exact moment for all 3 cabs. I think the average value is more meaningful

Does the SPL meter allow you to select frequency and time weighting?

Sound level meter - Wikipedia
I should be clear...I know next to nothing about how SPL and frequency response measurements for speaker specs.

 

[gtirard]

If think GR Bass is optimistic, but also Barefaced is probably more honest than average. From my experience with 1x12 cabs from other brands (Markbass, Hartke, Fender), the Super Compact is much louder, but it's not visible in the sensitivity figures.

 

[gtirard]

Does the SPL meter allow you to select frequency and time weighting?

Sound level meter - Wikipedia
I should be clear...I know next to nothing about how SPL and frequency response measurements for speaker specs.

The free version is very limited, and the pro version has tons of features, but I don't want to go into this because it's a monthly fee (of course you can interrupt it, but it's probably a nightmare, I had a bad experience in the past).
Also, I'm not sure I want to go into this rabbit whole, I'm sure it's very time consuming and I already had the quick confrmation I was looking for.

 

[agedhorse]

IMO, average sensitivity between 50Hz and 5kHz at 1W RMS, 1M in 1/2-space and the maximum SPL based on RMS rated power handling and the above sensitivity is a good real world method of defining things for bass cabinets.

 

[Hamrlik]

There's a LOT about the GR Bass provided specs that seem "optimistic", and that's not really the word I'd prefer to use for them.

That said, given the weight and reviews I won't lie and say I haven't been intrigued by their 212 cab.

 

[Charlie Tuna]

50W tube amp, I thought it would be loud enough for gigs with. It turns out this combo is loud enough to gig with (for small and medium gigs), which is great because the amp only weight 4.2 kg (not bad for a tube amp)

And which tube amp is this?

 

[KenD]

At those levels of sensitivity I would be more interested in the difference in tonality between the two cabs (if any difference is noticeable).

 

[gtirard]

And which tube amp is this?

Pure Tone Amp - Mini Tone

Here with my GR Bass NF210V

 

[gtirard]

At those levels of sensitivity I would be more interested in the difference in tonality between the two cabs (if any difference is noticeable).

They have a very comparable tone. The Barefaced has bigger low end, but it's easy to add a little bass on the amp's EQ to get the same low end with the GR Bass.

 

[bottomzone]

You can't always believe the manufacturer's specs. How were they measured? What microphone(s) were used, and how close were they to the drivers?

 

[gtirard]

You can't always believe the manufacturer's specs. How were they measured? What microphone(s) were used, and how close were they to the drivers?

It's always a distance of 1 meter, but there are many other parameters.