My first experience using IEMs (OEMs)...

[Lance Bunyon]

Last night was interesting!!!
My band has been trying to enter the 21st century for about a year. We got the two Electrovoice array towers last year which was a gamechanger all by themselves.
Then the drummer and guitarist went IEM.
Guitarist went ampless last year.

Last night I finally joined them. Bought the. XVive U4R belt receiver unit and since my ears tend to reject earbuds I bought some Vic Firth headphones to go over my ears. I used my old mic cable to DI from my head to the board.

Right out the gate we had problems last night. My partners have had difficulty merging the Yamaha mixing board with the EV array system.
To make matters worse, the guitarist blew his fake Marshall drive pedal. Why he's so addicted to pedestrian Boss effects I'll never know.
The noise through my headset was so bad I removed the headset and went back to monitoring off the array (which was close to my head).

My takeaways from the maybe 10 songs I wore the headset (without a blown pedal screeching in my ears)...
Bass sound was not my favorite. Reminded me of being in the studio. I get nervous in the studio.
My vocal mix was stupendous. Major plus. While wearing a headset I wasn't straining to sing. Very plus!

I will revisit this in Mid-July. I'm heading out on an Asian sebatical tomorrow and my band will have a sub for the month.

All in all I'm dedicated to continuing to try to make this work. I'm turning 57 next month and my singing voice isn't getting any more robust. Singing was so easy with OEMs!
Glad I didn't go ampless. We don't have a subwoofer and really that's mostly the same thing right? I already move a box. Why replace one box with another (inferior) box?
I might try the IEM buds my drummer uses. Worst case scenario I get frustrated and throw the headphones back on.

So to get MY sound in the mix, I flick the switch on my Mesa Boogie Prodigy to "post DI" right? I heard SOME of the prodigy. To be fair I had the DI level at 25%. Trying to start out conservative and work my way into to this thing.
I'm a dinosaur. I'm just a caveman.
These things confuse and baffle me.
Help me get into the 21st century???

 

[musicman7722]

Congrats for trying but you are doing a number of things incorrectly.

Can you answer a few questions first.

What type of mixer and what is the model of the EV Array towers?

I own a pair of EV Evolve 50's.

I did a trio gig last night. Lead guitar, acoustic, bass guitar. One singer and a drum machine, we call him Chip. All going direct.

Used one Evolve 50 and with a few hotspot monitors. Small rest., maybe seated 40 peeps. Sound was excellent. I had a set of XVive IEM that I used a bit but the board would not allow me to have a dedicated monitor mix so I just went without.

The Evolves were great.

Also you can't really enjoy the bass guitar with what look like open headphones. You need a sealed earbud setup.

Chris

 

[hrodbert696]

Did you set up your full system in rehearsal before gigging it? You can tweak at a gig, but really I wouldn't jump into a gig with IEMs unless I'd had a chance to dial in a baseline mix.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Congrats for trying but you are doing a number of things incorrectly.

Can you answer a few questions first.

What type of mixer and what is the model of the EV Array towers?

I own a pair of EV Evolve 50's.

I did a trio gig last night. Lead guitar, acoustic, bass guitar. One singer and a drum machine, we call him Chip. All going direct.

Used one Evolve 50 and with a few hotspot monitors. Small rest., maybe seated 40 peeps. Sound was excellent. I had a set of XVive IEM that I used a bit but the board would not allow me to have a dedicated monitor mix so I just went without.

The Evolves were great.

Also you can't really enjoy the bass guitar with what look like open headphones. You need a sealed earbud setup.

Chris

Definitely the Evolve series. Not sure of the model number. The Vic Firth headset is noise cancelling which made it hard to work with the drummer. His bass drum is mic'd but not his kit. We're working on that.
What's a hotspot monitor? I've worked with old-school monitors for 3 decades.
Yeah I'm gonna try the IRMs the drummer uses. They are not sealed.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Did you set up your full system in rehearsal before gigging it? You can tweak at a gig, but really I wouldn't jump into a gig with IEMs unless I'd had a chance to dial in a baseline mix.

Nope and I agree I need to woodshed this whole concept in the practice space.
Thought we could get away with doing this on the fly last night because we brought a soundman (lady) who's a lifetime full time pro musician. She's way older than me so was even more out of her element than I was.
The bass sound wasn't the worst of the worst it was just that bassic bass sound a 2nd year Berklee engineer puts in your cans for that discounted midnight recording session lol.
We have a great practice space and setup. Gonna get with the boys as soon as I get back from the Philippines.
I'm a tad bit irritated with the guitarist for never having a backup actual amp in case things go wrong with his pedalboard (which they did last night).
For such a pedal freak his board is quite illogical and he has no actual preamp per se.
Of the three of us he's got the least experience with any of this. Took me two years with the old PA system to teach him how to place the mics behind the speakers to avoid feedback.

 

[DonaldR]

I'm playing ampless for more than a decade. And I like it

First: You all need to work on your sound with PA at gig level, in your practice room.
There's a good chance that you will sound boomy at gig level if you set your sound at low level practice level. So crank the PA and work on your mix sound.
Make sure everything is worked out and know what knob/fader to touch for spot correction. Nothing worst than trying to figure out what to do when playing in front of an audience.
Work on your sound in full mix and not in isolation.

Second: You need to work on your direct to PA sound.
Do you have the Bass Prodigy Four:88? If so, you would need to put the switch on silent recording to disable the power amp and not fry your amp when a cab is not plugged.
Realize that what's working for you in term of sound might not be what's working for the full mix out of the PA. So you would need to have the pre-eq/pre-fader on the mixer to an aux output to your IEM. That will be the sound of your amp's DI output.

If the sound of the DI out of your amp doesn't sound to your liking, you'll want to invest in a preamp or modeler of some sort. My bass thru a passive/active DI box direct to my monitor/headphones/IEM has never worked for me, YMMV. I have all kind of boxes but I'm often just using a tuner pedal and an Ampeg SCR-DI direct to mixer (all fitting in my gigbag and powered by 9v batteries). Sounds fantastic IMHO.

Third: You need to get used to your new monitoring system.
The sound/feel from headphones will never match your amp and cab(s). But if your are working on point 1 and 2, getting the full mix in your headphone can sound very good. I'm used to that sound and I like it, the same as I like the bass sound out of a CD. If your PA has a subwoofer, the feel can be good too. Since my drummer is now using an eDrums and we are all direct to FOH, no amps on stage, we are just using 2 powered PA speakers as monitors. They are pretty low in volume, just a bit higher level than speaking level.

Forth: Have your guitar player working on it's sound.
I have an Avid Eleven Rack that I let my guitar player use at gigs and it sounds wonderful direct to FOH. I don't understand what your guitar player is using since he doesn't even have a preamp. If he's direct to PA, he needs some sort of amp/speaker modelling otherwise it will not sound good (maybe except on a very clean jazz sound). I'm also using an Atomic Firebox that I like a lot. He can use something similar out of his pedalboard and XLR out to mixer.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I'm playing ampless for more than a decade. And I like it

First: You all need to work on your sound with PA at gig level, in your practice room.
There's a good chance that you will sound boomy at gig level if you set your sound at low level practice level. So crank the PA and work on your mix sound.
Make sure everything is worked out and know what knob/fader to touch for spot correction. Nothing worst than trying to figure out what to do when playing in front of an audience.
Work on your sound in full mix and not in isolation.

Second: You need to work on your direct to PA sound.
Do you have the Bass Prodigy Four:88? If so, you would need to put the switch on silent recording to disable the power amp and not fry your amp when a cab is not plugged.
Realize that what's working for you in term of sound might not be what's working for the full mix out of the PA. So you would need to have the pre-eq/pre-fader on the mixer to an aux output to your IEM. That will be the sound of your amp's DI output.

If the sound of the DI out of your amp doesn't sound to your liking, you'll want to invest in a preamp or modeler of some sort. My bass thru a passive/active DI box direct to my monitor/headphones/IEM has never worked for me, YMMV. I have all kind of boxes but I'm often just using a tuner pedal and an Ampeg SCR-DI direct to mixer (all fitting in my gigbag and powered by 9v batteries). Sounds fantastic IMHO.

Third: You need to get used to your new monitoring system.
The sound/feel from headphones will never match your amp and cab(s). But if your are working on point 1 and 2, getting the full mix in your headphone can sound very good. I'm used to that sound and I like it, the same as I like the bass sound out of a CD. If your PA has a subwoofer, the feel can be good too. Since my drummer is now using an eDrums and we are all direct to FOH, no amps on stage, we are just using 2 powered PA speakers as monitors. They are pretty low in volume, just a bit higher level than speaking level.

Forth: Have your guitar player working on it's sound.
I have an Avid Eleven Rack that I let my guitar player use at gigs and it sounds wonderful direct to FOH. I don't understand what your guitar player is using since he doesn't even have a preamp. If he's direct to PA, he needs some sort of amp/speaker modelling otherwise it will not sound good (maybe except on a very clean jazz sound). I'm also using an Atomic Firebox that I like a lot. He can use something similar out of his pedalboard and XLR out to mixer.

Very helpful thanks. I'll definitely use this as a checklist.

 

[Egg250]

To keep my family happy, I mostly use headphones when practicing at home, so transitioning to IEMs was pretty easy. Also, I'm a late bloomer, so I never really got accustomed to the "wall of sound".

Ear buds will probably work better than OEMs. Also you might get more play time on a charge, as the ear buds might not use as much power as the headphones.

It's great the kick drum is mic'd, you guys will probably want to think about mic'ing the snare as well. Maybe the toms too. I wouldn't worry about the hats or cymbals because there will be plenty of bleed into the snare/tom mics. You don't necessarily need those in the FOH mix, but will definitely need it in the monitor mix.

Absolutely spend time in rehearsal getting the IEM mix right. Once you got it, there should be no need to change it up for a show, the IEMs don't care about room acoustics. We are using the XR18, digital mixer. It has 6 aux outs/buses, so we can have 6 individual monitor mixes as well as a separate mix for the mains. It also has "ultranet" technology, which is a ethernet style connector, but you can connect a behringer P16 which allows the user to control their own monitor mix. You can daisy chain up to 6 P16s, that way each musician can control their own mix. We aren't set up for that, but I do like that functionality.

 

[2thAche]

I've found it great for hearing vocals and lowering stage volume but I still haven't gotten a good sound to hear the bass in my mix, and we have issues with channels getting choppy with XVive (3 of us) and the mixer sliders not working on XAir. Probably lack of knowledge on our part but when it works its great, when its not working right it's frustrating.

 

[Wasnex]

I would call that pretty much a complete fail. This is something the entire band should work out before the gig.

Switching the DI on your amp may make matters worse. It depends on your tone goals and what sort of speaker you are using on stage. If your speaker is not full-range, flat-response, the post DI will not sound very much like the sound you are hearing on stage.

If you prefer a more traditional sound, then consider a speaker SIM or IR loader. Or simply adjust your amp/preamp to give the desired tone you want in the IEMs and get rid of the stage cab.

When I was younger I could wear earbuds everyday. When I gigged with IEMS, I tried to put them in well before we started. This is recommended so you get acclimated. Once inserted, I tried to leave the IEMs in until the gig was done. Removing and replacing the IEMs too frequently would irritate my ears canals and cause discomfort. Leaving them in was not always possible because people may want to talk on breaks. Also, if the fit is not good, they will get uncomfortable after extended wear time.

Now it's challenging to use any sort of ear plug more than once a week. I usually reserve using ear plugs for a motorcycle ride and wear over-the-ear hearing protection for stuff like grinding coffee beans or using power equipment.

Due to seborrhea, my ear canals are always a bit irritated. To ease insertion of ear plugs, I rub a very small amount of Miracell oil on the opening of my external ear canal. Basically I put one drop on the tip of my thumb, then I rub both thumbs together, and finally I rub the tip of each thumb on the opening of each ear.

You want just enough Miracell to ease the insertion of your ear plugs. To much of the oil results in bubbling noises. Also, Miracell irritates my ears, but not as much as inserting ear plugs into unlubricated ear canals.

Supposedly leaving a bit of dandruff shampoo residue on the external ear helps. Lather up your hair and then use your thumb to lightly brush a little of the mixture around the opening of your ear. Don't try to force foam down into your ear canal. Also, my dermatologist told me occasional use 1% hydrocortisone is fine. I suggest discussing this with your health care provider, rather than taking my word for it.

 

[musicman7722]

FWIW I use a Kiesel Vader 5 bass into a Zoom MS-60B Multi Stomp pedal set for the stock SVT amp sim. That output goes into a standard Radial Di which then goes to FOH. No amp on stage.

My main board is a Mackie DL32S and each band member gets their own mix out (Aux). IEM's are set to pre fader while wedges are set to pre DSP.

Watch out for the X-Vive as they live in the same freq. band as 2.4 ghz cell phones. also it is bad to share the same IEM mix f that is what you are doing. Phew, good luck

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I miss my guitarists 30 watt Marshall combo...

 

[Ostie]

Why does your GP need a spare amp when it was a pedal that went south? Just disconnect the pedal.

 

[buldog5151bass]

A hotspot monitor is a small vocal monitor, often mounted on a mic stand.

 

[ewarren88]

I am the only player in our band using in-ear monitors so I still bring an amp rig for everyone else to hear bass on stage. (Actually the cabinets are also needed to carry smaller rooms without bass in the smaller PA.) Initially I was getting a nice full range bass sound in my ears, plus a whole bunch of low-mid and bass frequencies directly through the air to my head. This mixture is unpleasant. I think I was actually cranking the bass louder in order to more clearly hear pitches. Not good.

It is now fixed by using a simple EQ pedal to tweak ONLY THE BASS signal going to my IEM. I reduce the low end and just send more of the musical higher frequency information. When playing with the amp volume turned down, it sounds kind of like tinny crap. But if I dial in a good sound with the amp volume low, mud ensues at stage volume. Can’t do that.

My setup is a Rolls PM59 mixer and wired headphones. I previously used the Rolls PM351, which has slightly different connectivity and may be better for some people’s needs. I take signal from the bass amp’s FX send, through the EQ, to the PM59. Bass amp DI takes a full range signal to the PA. Regular monitor mix from the PA enters the PM59 in another channel, and if I want, my mic can also be fed through a third channel in the PM59 to steal a signal upstream of heading to the PA. That leaves independent volume control of (1) bass, (2) vocal, and (3) everything else by three knobs on a small mixer that sits overtop my bass amp. This works with our PA in particular or anyone else’s PA if provided by the venue.

I suggest sticking with the IEMs for a while, particularly if you can use them to avoid stupid-loud stage volume! No more ringing ears. There will be a learning curve. However I’m several years in and it has been SO worth it to me.

 

[jdjk7]

To make matters worse, the guitarist blew his fake Marshall drive pedal. Why he's so addicted to pedestrian Boss effects I'll never know.

Boss effects may be "pedestrian" as you say, but they're standard for a reason. The only way those things are gonna break is via abusing them or via old age. Unless it was a cheap Amazon.com Special in the style of a Boss pedal, in which case I understand why it broke.

As far as the IEM situation... this is not something your band can just slap together and hope it will work. This is a change that needs to be coordinated. For one of my bands, two out of our four vocalists switched to IEMs to hear harmonies better. We had several rehearsals to play with it and get it working. The first couple of times it was messy, but once we got the process down and got the mixes dialed in, it pretty much now just runs itself.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Boss effects may be "pedestrian" as you say, but they're standard for a reason. The only way those things are gonna break is via abusing them or via old age. Unless it was a cheap Amazon.com Special in the style of a Boss pedal, in which case I understand why it broke.

As far as the IEM situation... this is not something your band can just slap together and hope it will work. This is a change that needs to be coordinated. For one of my bands, two out of our four vocalists switched to IEMs to hear harmonies better. We had several rehearsals to play with it and get it working. The first couple of times it was messy, but once we got the process down and got the mixes dialed in, it pretty much now just runs itself.

I'm glad you like Boss. I've had bad luck with more than one Boss pedal. Although my Boss bass chorus is holding up well. I offered the pawnshop owner $30 and he accepted.
I'd never again pay full retail for a Boss pedal.

 

[micguy]

Did you set up your full system in rehearsal before gigging it? You can tweak at a gig, but really I wouldn't jump into a gig with IEMs unless I'd had a chance to dial in a baseline mix.

Bingo - there is a learning curve to IEM's, and it's not really a good idea to do that learning in front of audiences. My world (the church gigs I do) are entirely ampless/IEM's, and have been for over a decade. Once you get past the learning curve, you'll find a lot of advantages, but jumping in at a gig is not the best transition strategy.

 

[jdjk7]

I'm glad you like Boss. I've had bad luck with more than one Boss pedal. Although my Boss bass chorus is holding up well. I offered the pawnshop owner $30 and he accepted.
I'd never again pay full retail for a Boss pedal.

Well, maybe it's changed. The only Boss pedal I still own is from '86. But whenever I've played through newer ones at jams or played with guitarists who use them, I dpn't often hear about issues with them as much as with some other brands.

 

[Auspuff]

Last night was interesting!!!
My band has been trying to enter the 21st century for about a year. We got the two Electrovoice array towers last year which was a gamechanger all by themselves.
Then the drummer and guitarist went IEM.
Guitarist went ampless last year.

Last night I finally joined them. Bought the. XVive U4R belt receiver unit and since my ears tend to reject earbuds I bought some Vic Firth headphones to go over my ears. I used my old mic cable to DI from my head to the board.

Right out the gate we had problems last night. My partners have had difficulty merging the Yamaha mixing board with the EV array system.
To make matters worse, the guitarist blew his fake Marshall drive pedal. Why he's so addicted to pedestrian Boss effects I'll never know.
The noise through my headset was so bad I removed the headset and went back to monitoring off the array (which was close to my head).

My takeaways from the maybe 10 songs I wore the headset (without a blown pedal screeching in my ears)...
Bass sound was not my favorite. Reminded me of being in the studio. I get nervous in the studio.
My vocal mix was stupendous. Major plus. While wearing a headset I wasn't straining to sing. Very plus!

I will revisit this in Mid-July. I'm heading out on an Asian sebatical tomorrow and my band will have a sub for the month.

All in all I'm dedicated to continuing to try to make this work. I'm turning 57 next month and my singing voice isn't getting any more robust. Singing was so easy with OEMs!
Glad I didn't go ampless. We don't have a subwoofer and really that's mostly the same thing right? I already move a box. Why replace one box with another (inferior) box?
I might try the IEM buds my drummer uses. Worst case scenario I get frustrated and throw the headphones back on.

So to get MY sound in the mix, I flick the switch on my Mesa Boogie Prodigy to "post DI" right? I heard SOME of the prodigy. To be fair I had the DI level at 25%. Trying to start out conservative and work my way into to this thing.
I'm a dinosaur. I'm just a caveman.
These things confuse and baffle me.
Help me get into the 21st century???

Th 21st-Century is vastly overrated.