My First Experience With PA Support Didn't Go Well But It Did

[DreadyDiggs]

Played the Chesapeake Bay Reggae Festival yesterday from 1:30pm to 2:30pm. I arrived at 1:17pm. I was nervous and wanted sunglasses, also turned in paperwork to start a new job before taking the 40 minute drive to the festival. But I got there.

Jumped on stage, tuned up, plugged in, and I couldn't get the rig loud enough on stage without noticing that the amp was clipping. So I turned it down to where whatever I played it didn't show it was clipping and I could barely here the 8 10s myself. I asked the soundguys about the amp and cabs supplied and he told me "Don't worry you got x amount of 18"s helping you out, they're just your monitor" I forgot how many 18s he said. Either way the whole set I could barely here the rig. But you could see people flocking towards us. Drummer had a monitor beside him and he made sure he could here me.

Now this is my second show with my band and my second show PERIOD. First show I used my own rig in a bar.

I screwed up one song, I guess watching these people flocking in my hands and brain stopped talking to each other. It took me like 15 tries to get the bassline right, and I'm sure folks could tell I was flustered. Thankfully we ran two more songs after that.

The next band up and every band after there was plenty of on-stage bass but they also used the wedge monitors too as they were bigger bands.

I was walking around with my gig bag and got nothing but compliments and praise about how deep and phat the bass was, but I'm hard on myself either way. The experience makes me want to bring my amp with me EVERYTIME I play. I know it. Is that unreasonable? Only reason I didn't bring it is because I was assured something was provided. Which it was, I'm just not comfortable touching every other amp out there.

 

[RoadRanger]

You didn't say what the rig was - it's pretty uncommon for an 8x10 to not be loud enough with most any head if the head is adjusted properly. Did you actually hear unpleasant clipping or were you just concerned about the flashy light ?

 

[nutdog]

It did what?

 

[Dug2]

wat name did you end up going with?

 

[DreadyDiggs]

You didn't say what the rig was - it's pretty uncommon for an 8x10 to not be loud enough with most any head if the head is adjusted properly. Did you actually hear unpleasant clipping or were you just concerned about the flashy light ?

I didn't even give myself a chance to listen cause we had like 10 minutes before start time. So I was concerned with the flashy light. Maybe I overreacted?

wat name did you end up going with?

The band leader did decide to introduce us but he called me Roschell because I didn't get to talk to him about it. He does know now to just refer to me as Diggs. Really hard to misprounce that lol.

 

[RoadRanger]

Depending on the particular amp the flashy light (which might be indicating most anything from output clipping, preamp clipping, limiting, overdrive, etc) might not indicate anything harmful. In general if you want the maximum undistorted output you need to turn the master all the way up and control the volume with the gain (or channel volume) knob. OTOH you might want a bit of overdrive if the amp is capable of doing it well so you'd turn the master down and use the gain to set the amount of overdrive, then use the master to set the volume. I generally have my flashy light getting a workout .

 

[4Mal]

I get that it can be odd with backline stuff but you sort of need to play through. I'm comfortable that I know the tunes... Where to be and where to lay out so if I can hear the kick, snare and lead vocal, I'm good. If I can hear everything else, including me so much the better. Key is to not let it get to you when it is imperfect. Sounds like you were able to do that.

As far as having a tune when the stuff doesn't gel on the downbeat ? As long as nobody falls off the cliff, it's all good.

Congrats on getting that one under your belt. Onward and upward!

 

[DreadyDiggs]

Yea, I'm glad I'm getting into situations like this early. The sooner I learn how to work through these things that can happen the better.

But would I be out of line to just bring my own amp and just plug up real quick? My drummer wants to hire roadies for next year's festival and setup his whole kit instead of just bringing his essentials. I don't need my cabs, but I'd definitely prefer my amp.

 

[Goatrope]

I don't think there's any problem with you bringing your own. I always have one of mine with me, just in case.

Arrive earlier, get to the sound guy quickly, and as long as he's not doing 10 other things, let him know you want to swap amps. Know the cabinet impedance, and make sure he's got your direct line turned all the way down or off before you pull the XLR out of the back line amp.

Eye contact with him to confirm he's seeing a good direct level from your amp, thumbs up, and go.

 

[JohnMCA72]

I've long since lost count of all the times I've played & couldn't hear myself. It happens a lot in multiple-band, festival-type events, when you arrive late, when there are technical problems, etc. The show must go on, & sometimes you have to do what you have to do even though conditions aren't ideal. In any event, what gets heard out front is almost certainly going to be quite a bit different from what it sounds like on stage.

It's a useful skill to develop enough trust in yourself, your bandmates, & your sound crew to be able to "know" what it's sounding like just based on feel. If you hold down a particular string on a particular fret, in a particular way, & pluck that string the way you do, it's going to sound like what you know it sounds like. You can tell if you're doing it right or wrong without having to hear it.

 

[SeattleSunn]

I have run into that with my fretless, and it can be distracting if you are straining to hear yourself. I had one experience where there was no amp and I went directly into the PA, the sound guy said its no problem we just use the monitors for onstage sound. I went with it, we had a quick sound check before we started, and I signaled to the sound guy I needed more out of my monitor, and he came on stage and said, "oh yeah we have been having problems with that monitor." I said I have to hear myself, so he tilted the guitars monitor towards me. As we were performing, I was moving around trying to find the place where I could hear myself the best. I watched a video made from where the audience was and the sound was good, and it went fairly well. I did feel like I spent the entire gig trying to play loud. The dynamics and tone changes I usually do were out the window, and I did miss a cue at the end of a song.

 

[DreadyDiggs]

There's so much more that goes on than just playing my instrument that I'm just kinda figuring out by trial and error after being thrown in the fire. I do consider myself a perfectionist so I rethink things that didn't go well for quite a while but at the end of the day it's over and everyone really enjoyed themselves and I did hear myself well enough to play the lines. My screw up as far as the one song had nothing to do with me not hearing myself, but more so amazement at the people flocking towards us.

 

[Rayjay]

First, the more you do these things the better you'll get at knowing what you want in your monitors (and who the monitor guy is and how to ask him for it etc). Sometimes its asking to change levels, sometimes its a matter of asking him to eq.

Second, its not uncommon for even a giant bass rig to sound thin on an outdoor gig. I rarely accept outdoor gigs with no PA because of this. The sound just leaves the cabinet and never comes back. Inside its bouncing all over the room, and even shaking the floor and the walls.

Lastly, don't be too hard on yourself, and remember that often live situations are far from ideal, and you can learn to play in a band setting with very little or very bad sounding monitor support, as long as the band is well-rehearsed and professional in demeanor.

The last couple weeks I have been doing a Sunday worship service where the band uses in-ears, but I can't get them to stay in my ears...my only monitor of the acoustic guitar, all vocals, the piano, and the V-drum kit is what I get coming back to the stage from the mains (ie NOT MUCH!!!). It isn't ideal but I trust the sound guys enough to let them provide a good experience to the crowd, at the end of the day that's all that matters.

Cheers!

 

[Ric5]

Played the Chesapeake Bay Reggae Festival yesterday from 1:30pm to 2:30pm. I arrived at 1:17pm. I was nervous and wanted sunglasses, also turned in paperwork to start a new job before taking the 40 minute drive to the festival. But I got there.

Jumped on stage, tuned up, plugged in, and I couldn't get the rig loud enough on stage without noticing that the amp was clipping. So I turned it down to where whatever I played it didn't show it was clipping and I could barely here the 8 10s myself. I asked the soundguys about the amp and cabs supplied and he told me "Don't worry you got x amount of 18"s helping you out, they're just your monitor" I forgot how many 18s he said. Either way the whole set I could barely here the rig. But you could see people flocking towards us. Drummer had a monitor beside him and he made sure he could here me.

Now this is my second show with my band and my second show PERIOD. First show I used my own rig in a bar.

I screwed up one song, I guess watching these people flocking in my hands and brain stopped talking to each other. It took me like 15 tries to get the bassline right, and I'm sure folks could tell I was flustered. Thankfully we ran two more songs after that.

The next band up and every band after there was plenty of on-stage bass but they also used the wedge monitors too as they were bigger bands.

I was walking around with my gig bag and got nothing but compliments and praise about how deep and phat the bass was, but I'm hard on myself either way. The experience makes me want to bring my amp with me EVERYTIME I play. I know it. Is that unreasonable? Only reason I didn't bring it is because I was assured something was provided. Which it was, I'm just not comfortable touching every other amp out there.

Consider this a learning experience ... in a concert type situation the bass amp is simply there for stage volume ... if things are done right then the audience will not hear the bass amp. The audience will hear what comes out of the PA system. This is totally different from a bar gig where the PA is mainly for vocals. Sometimes playing a concert can suck because what you hear on stage is not what the audience hears. You put your sound into the realm of the soundman. If he is good then you sound good and if he sucks then you do too. This is part of the reason many concerts are done with in ear monitors, because then you can hear everything.

 

[Growlmonkee]

Don't be too hard on yourself about mistakes live, they happen...... a lot. It is the right mindset to feel you have to carry the song with your playing...you do. Play right through any mistakes, as if they didn't happen, the crowd for the most part does not notice them, more so if you show no sign of them while playing. Strive to dig in and nail every song, every groove, and continue doing so if you mess up. Part of not hearing yourself in front of an 810 is nerves, part is lousy stage sound..it gets easier in time. At large venues you have to "trust" FOH for what people hear, that, in itself, can be a bit un-nerving, takes a little getting used to, and even if you hear yourself, it isn't what the crowd hears, no choice there, but to play your best.

 

[Dug2]

 

[Dug2]

 

[DreadyDiggs]

Dug2 when we were doing covers we actually cover Guess Who's Coming. Last time we played it we dubbed it for a bit, everyone was feeling it haha. I believe he sings some original lyrics over it too, but I kinda just listen to his voice for ques not so much the lyrics anymore. We play it a step down at least though. I rumble the place with that bassline lol.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. At the end of the day the gig was a success. Can't wait to do it again, but I will definitely plug my own amp from now on just for insurance. I also need to invest in a wireless so I can move without stepping on my cord. I kicked away and it finds its way back to under my foot. No danger in stomping it out, it just feels weird lol.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Depending on the particular amp the flashy light (which might be indicating most anything from output clipping, preamp clipping, limiting, overdrive, etc) might not indicate anything harmful. In general if you want the maximum undistorted output you need to turn the master all the way up and control the volume with the gain (or channel volume) knob. OTOH you might want a bit of overdrive if the amp is capable of doing it well so you'd turn the master down and use the gain to set the amount of overdrive, then use the master to set the volume. I generally have my flashy light getting a workout .

No way is master full on a general rule.

 

[DWBass]

I live in the area. I meant to come out and check out the bands but got busy doing yard work. I got friends in United Souls Band (used to work with Red Dread).