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My first gig with full PA support is coming up

I found out that our NYE gig and a wedding gig in February will have us with a soundman and full PA support. I've never had this luxuary and am really excited about it. We are an oldies band and I'm hoping we can get a nice full sound out front (but not blast the crowd) while keeping a nice balance on stage at lower volumes. I'm even considering using my B15.

Any advice or suggestions? Anything I should expect to have to get used to?
 
You shouldn't be very loud at the wedding. Your stage volume might overcome what you hear on stage. The audience will hear a good mix, you'll hear the stage. I've been in situations where all I heard was drums, bass, some vocals a ton of keys and very little guitar. That's with a PA.
 
You shouldn't be very loud at the wedding. Your stage volume might overcome what you hear on stage. The audience will hear a good mix, you'll hear the stage. I've been in situations where all I heard was drums, bass, some vocals a ton of keys and very little guitar. That's with a PA.

Oh I see. But the wedding reception is going to be in a big hall at one of the hotels.
 
You're not playing a concert. You'll need to be at a moderate volume so Grandma, Grandpa and Aunt Gertie can all converse about the the golden days when those long haired, drug crazed, hippies and that damned, loud, obnoxious, Rock & Roll music hadn't started yet. You'll want to play to the dance floor, not the whole building, Pedro.
 
You're not playing a concert. You'll need to be at a moderate volume so Grandma, Grandpa and Aunt Gertie can all converse about the the golden days when those long haired, drug crazed, hippies and that damned, loud, obnoxious, Rock & Roll music hadn't started yet. You'll want to play to the dance floor, not the whole building, Pedro.

+1. We normally play at very low volume. The problem happens though when someone out front says, 'I can't hear the ___ then that person turns up and it screws up the nice quiet onstage setting. Hopefully the PA will help us avoid that.
 
Well, if your soundman is any good, it should be as you're hoping it will. However, since your band normally plays at low volumes, you'all may encounter sound perception issues depending on how big the room is and if you have a stage.

Russ


Russ I have no idea how good the soundman is. Our drummer says he's good but I don't know for sure.

Can you elaborate on the sound perception issues?
 
Russ I have no idea how good the soundman is. Our drummer says he's good but I don't know for sure.

Can you elaborate on the sound perception issues?

I'm sure your soundman will be good, you can always trust the drummer! :ninja::hiding::D

Playing though a large PA system is very different experience from a small system. Hopefully, you will have enough monitors and maybe more than 1 monitor mix. The sound you and your bandmates will hear is going to be dependent on how good the monitor mix is, where the stage (if any) is set, the room, how high the ceiling is and how loud you will/need to be.

Sometimes musicians who haven't experienced playing though a large system get thrown off by what they are or are not hearing or perceiving. Not trying to be negative, just trying to help. :smug:

Russ
 
Russ I have no idea how good the soundman is. Our drummer says he's good but I don't know for sure.

Can you elaborate on the sound perception issues?

Sorry if this gets wordy but I'll try to explain as well as possible.

When you have full PA support, you've usually got a few things going on:

- You're on a big stage
- You're in a big room
- You're trying to keep your stage volume as low as possible
- You may or may not have good monitoring available

The key here is the "stage volume as low as possible". If you're really doing it right, the guitar and bass amps are low enough that you and the guitarist can't really hear each other if your amps are facing forward toward the crowd. The room should be big enough that you're not really hearing any reflections off the walls because the low volume sound is just going out and being absorbed by the people in the room. The same goes for what's coming out of the PA--you won't necessarily hear it because you're *behind* the front-of-house speakers, and those speakers are designed to *not* send their sound backward because that can cause lots of feedback.

So how do you solve this problem where nobody can hear each other? In an ideal world, you solve it with monitoring. Monitors are those wedge-shaped speakers you see sitting along the front of the stage, pointing back at the band. They send the signal from the mixing board back to the band so they can hear themselves play. In an ideal world, you've got a separate monitor mix and even a separate monitoring sound guy whose sole purpose in life is to make the monitor mix sound good to the band. In the real world, that almost never happens. You get whatever crappy mix the sound guy puts together, which is usually *very* heavy in vocals and not a whole lot else. The singer has to hear himself to sing in tune, so the vocals get cranked up.

So, how do you play well in a real-world situation? There are a few tricks:

- Learn to play your part while only hearing yourself, the drummer, and the singer. That's usually the best you can hope for. If you have no monitoring, or only vocal monitoring, set up your amp right next to the drummer so he can hear you and you can lock in together.

- Put your amp on a stand so the speakers angle toward your head. This lets you keep a lower stage volume and still hear yourself well.

- Set up your amps in a "crossfire" setup. What this means is that instead of you and the guitarist putting your amps behind you facing the crowd, you put them to the sides of the stage facing across the stage at each other. This helps everybody hear everybody while making the sound guy happy because the amps aren't facing the microphones at the front of the stage. Even better is to put them in the front corners of the stage and face them toward the drummer. This only works with smaller combo amps, don't put a full stack at the front of the stage. It'll just block your view of part of the crowd (and their view of you).

Edit: Oh yeah, and always trust the sound guy when you're on stage. If you can't hear yourself, don't assume nobody else can hear you. Turn up just enough to where you can hear yourself and leave it at that. And I don't mean "hear yourself with your chest pounding like you know your amp can do", I mean that your amp is audible to you on stage. In big rooms and on big stages, what the crowd hears is *very* different from what the band hears on the stage. Just play through your set, then ask somebody you trust in the crowd whether the band sounded good out in the audience or not. If it did, the sound guy is doing his job correctly regardless of what you heard from your spot on the stage.
 
Thanks a ton Jehos. My drummer told me that the sound guy provides different monitor mixes for each guy so I'm hopeful that we will be able to hear ourselves as well as the other band members on stage.

Sounds like you might be close to the ideal world then. If you've got a sound guy with the ability and the willingness to create multiple monitor mixes, you should be more than fine. Just stay up near the monitors and you should hear everything with no problems, and if you can't hear something just tell the sound guy (figure all this stuff out while sound checking).
 
- Set up your amps in a "crossfire" setup. What this means is that instead of you and the guitarist putting your amps behind you facing the crowd, you put them to the sides of the stage facing across the stage at each other. This helps everybody hear everybody while making the sound guy happy because the amps aren't facing the microphones at the front of the stage. Even better is to put them in the front corners of the stage and face them toward the drummer. This only works with smaller combo amps, don't put a full stack at the front of the stage. It'll just block your view of part of the crowd (and their view of you).

Curious is this still recommended if we have monitors?
 
Curious is this still recommended if we have monitors?

Yes, if possible. Less is more when it comes to what is put into the monitors. If you can get a good mix on stage without the heavy use of monitors, it will be quieter. Monitors are a double edged sword. yes, you CAN put alot into them, but it eventully turns into dimishing returns. As mentioned before, be as quiet on stage as possible. With alot of monitoring it just raises the noise floor, making it harder to hear what you need. If your drummer is a basher you are already in trouble anyways LOL.:)
 
Yes, if possible. Less is more when it comes to what is put into the monitors. If you can get a good mix on stage without the heavy use of monitors, it will be quieter. Monitors are a double edged sword. yes, you CAN put alot into them, but it eventully turns into dimishing returns. As mentioned before, be as quiet on stage as possible. With alot of monitoring it just raises the noise floor, making it harder to hear what you need. If your drummer is a basher you are already in trouble anyways LOL.:)

Thanks Greg. No our drummer is not the least bit of a basher. The ideal for me would be to keep our stage volume at rehearsal levels and let the PA do the out front work.

One other concerns regarding the monitors though is that I am considering using my B15, which I've used plenty at rehearsals. My concern is that if we don't put some of it thru the monitors, and we set up too far apart from each other, the other guys in the band may not be able to hear me.
 
I am assumeing you reherse in some kind of an arc, or semi-circle. You may want to reconsider using this paticular amp, as you most likely will not be setting up for stage, as you would in rehersal. However, if you do put a little bass (keyword a "little") that should be ok. The point is, the queiter the stage is, the better you will hear. I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but its true. If your guitar player is 20 feet away from you, he wont be able to hear you without some kind of monitor. That could be a bass extension cab, or in the wedge. If you all cluster semi close, so that everyone can hear each other, great. You wont need alot in the wedges, lowering the noise floor, and keeping the stage generally quieter. Have fun.