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Double Bass My new Shen SB-190
- Thread starter Tin-Foot Paul
- Start date
Hi Eric. My arco technique is pitiful, but when I luck out and bow it properly it sounds great. Very rich.
Nice bass Paul! That varnish is just lovely. The warm honey color without that harsh orange cast is easy on the eyes. And the tight grain of the willow in the sides is attractive and unmistakable. It really is a refreshing change from the flamed maple look. Is that ebony where the neck joins the body? My wishes for good health and a happy relationship go out to both of you.
Nice bass! I just got a Shen Rogeri willow bass last weekend, and really like it. Two days later I saw that they just announced/posted info about their 190 willow model. I'm very curious about the flat back models and wonder if you were able to compare your 190 with any of the round back willow basses. I love the rich mellow sound of the willow basses, but wonder how they'll be a few years down the road. People have commented that they think my new bass is really pretty, but I sort of think the willow looks like 1970s furniture or wall paneling. It's not nearly as pretty as the Shen basses made with maple. But then, how important are looks?
- Oct 12, 2004
- 1,327
- 587
- 72
- Disclosures
- Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
I really love oil varnish on willow, especially if there is some red in the color. It's a different look than maple to be sure. The Shen finish is shiney with a very clean look. The duller looking oil varnish finish on the Kolstein basses are meant to look like they are 100 years old.
Hi LeslieD,
I heard all the Shen basses at NAMM. My honest impression from what I heard (and I heard them all in a quiet hall, before they opened the doors each day...and I DID visit them each day!!
) was that all of the flat back basses were louder for pizz. Although the Rogeri round back willow bass is a wonderful bass, I thought it might have been a smidge too dark sounding for my taste. I think the darker sounding willow helps the bass sound "older" right from the start, especially when they have a round back.
I do LOVE the Rogeri shape though. Such a classic shape, and I would buy a flatback Rogeri bass made with soild carved maple in a heartbeat. My last bass was a Shen Willow 3/4 (SB 200), which I played regularly for almost a year. It really opened up the last few months I had it This bass, with the maple back and larger shoulders, is substantially louder, even as a new bass. Truthfully, the 190 sounds like it has a solid maple back...it would be interesting to hear a solid and a ply maple back Rogeri side by side. I wonder if it would be much of a difference. However, the 190 sounds so good, even as a new bass, it's amazing that Shen can do this! My bass was VERY well set up from Jeff Sahs in San Francisco. He did an amazing job planing the board for a very even growl throughout the bass, and that particular setup has really helped this bass shine.
Now, I'm not a Ken Smith, so my budget doesn't allow me to own a 50K bass, but for what I do, which is play jazz 4-5 nights a week in clubs and restaurants, this bass works wonderfully for me. I have owned a few 100 plus year old basses, and an old Pollman, so I am not unaware of what an old bass can sound like. But, this new bass is a nice blend of bright and warm, loud and sexy with that Rogeri shape. Plus, if something ever happened to it, I wouldn't be suicidal! For around 3K, how can any of this be a bad thing?
I heard all the Shen basses at NAMM. My honest impression from what I heard (and I heard them all in a quiet hall, before they opened the doors each day...and I DID visit them each day!!
) was that all of the flat back basses were louder for pizz. Although the Rogeri round back willow bass is a wonderful bass, I thought it might have been a smidge too dark sounding for my taste. I think the darker sounding willow helps the bass sound "older" right from the start, especially when they have a round back. I do LOVE the Rogeri shape though. Such a classic shape, and I would buy a flatback Rogeri bass made with soild carved maple in a heartbeat. My last bass was a Shen Willow 3/4 (SB 200), which I played regularly for almost a year. It really opened up the last few months I had it This bass, with the maple back and larger shoulders, is substantially louder, even as a new bass. Truthfully, the 190 sounds like it has a solid maple back...it would be interesting to hear a solid and a ply maple back Rogeri side by side. I wonder if it would be much of a difference. However, the 190 sounds so good, even as a new bass, it's amazing that Shen can do this! My bass was VERY well set up from Jeff Sahs in San Francisco. He did an amazing job planing the board for a very even growl throughout the bass, and that particular setup has really helped this bass shine.
Now, I'm not a Ken Smith, so my budget doesn't allow me to own a 50K bass, but for what I do, which is play jazz 4-5 nights a week in clubs and restaurants, this bass works wonderfully for me. I have owned a few 100 plus year old basses, and an old Pollman, so I am not unaware of what an old bass can sound like. But, this new bass is a nice blend of bright and warm, loud and sexy with that Rogeri shape. Plus, if something ever happened to it, I wouldn't be suicidal!
For around 3K, how can any of this be a bad thing?I didn't have the luxury of trying out all the different Shen models, so Jacochops it's great to hear your comparisons. I played my new bass for a classical concert yesterday (w/ music by Russian composers Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky and Glinka) and that darker/older sound came out nicely in the willow Rogeri roundback model. It was nice for bowing, but pizzicato on this bass is a little anemic. I'm using D'Addario strings that came on the bass, so I'll probably look for something a little brighter.
I've played this bass a few nights with my bluegrass band, but my bandmates aren't too thrilled with the sound...so I'm sticking with my plywood Eberle for non-classical music.
I'm interested in learning more about the model numbering system and sizes of the various Shens. My particular bass is a "Samuel Shen Rogeri Model SB 200W 5/8." There's nothing 5/8ths about this bass and it's considerably bigger than my last 3/4. Does anyone completely understand this naming/numbering system? What do the SBs and Ws mean-- string bass, and willow? Are the fully carved basses all in the 200 or higher numbering series?
Also, regarding price for instruments: I'm not ready to plop down $10,000 or $15,000 for a bass yet (and I'd probably end up being so hypervigilant about potential damage to the instrument that I'd be a nervous wreck all the time). So, I think owning a Shen is better overall for my mental health--and it wasn't such a big deal when a fellow bassist put the first "dent" in my bass yesterday.
I've played this bass a few nights with my bluegrass band, but my bandmates aren't too thrilled with the sound...so I'm sticking with my plywood Eberle for non-classical music.
I'm interested in learning more about the model numbering system and sizes of the various Shens. My particular bass is a "Samuel Shen Rogeri Model SB 200W 5/8." There's nothing 5/8ths about this bass and it's considerably bigger than my last 3/4. Does anyone completely understand this naming/numbering system? What do the SBs and Ws mean-- string bass, and willow? Are the fully carved basses all in the 200 or higher numbering series?
Also, regarding price for instruments: I'm not ready to plop down $10,000 or $15,000 for a bass yet (and I'd probably end up being so hypervigilant about potential damage to the instrument that I'd be a nervous wreck all the time). So, I think owning a Shen is better overall for my mental health--and it wasn't such a big deal when a fellow bassist put the first "dent" in my bass yesterday.
Hi Leslie,
You might want to try some Obligatos on your new bass. They pizz really well, and bow well, too. Some people don't like the "roll" you get with the Obligatos, but I dig it. I have always hated the D'Addario strings...they have never worked for me. The Obligatos would allow you to use your new bass in the orchestra, AND pull it out for your bluegrass gig. What kind of amp are you using, by the way?
My new 190 says 5/8 as well, but it's more like a 7/8 than 5/8. I think they are label typos, to be honest. I asked John Sprague (Shen distributor) about it, and he says it is a mistake. Perhaps someone screwed up at the factory?? Who knows....anyway, enjoy your new Shen. The upper level basses they make are worth WAY more than what we pay, and if your bass gets damaged, you don't have to call a coronary specialist, as they are not an ancient heirloom!
You might want to try some Obligatos on your new bass. They pizz really well, and bow well, too. Some people don't like the "roll" you get with the Obligatos, but I dig it. I have always hated the D'Addario strings...they have never worked for me. The Obligatos would allow you to use your new bass in the orchestra, AND pull it out for your bluegrass gig. What kind of amp are you using, by the way?
My new 190 says 5/8 as well, but it's more like a 7/8 than 5/8. I think they are label typos, to be honest. I asked John Sprague (Shen distributor) about it, and he says it is a mistake. Perhaps someone screwed up at the factory?? Who knows....anyway, enjoy your new Shen. The upper level basses they make are worth WAY more than what we pay, and if your bass gets damaged, you don't have to call a coronary specialist, as they are not an ancient heirloom!
- Oct 12, 2004
- 1,327
- 587
- 72
- Disclosures
- Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
One of the fully carved Rogeri Shens that I picked up at the NAMM show also had the "5/8" label. Somebody was in a big hurry to get the labels together that day.
Worth more? What do you mean? Do you mean that, in your opinion, they have the quality and sound of basses costing considerably more? Now, that I could understand.
Yup...you nailed it. I mean that for what you pay, you get more bass than what one would get with other basses in this price point. There is NO way that I would guess that my bass was around 3K if I didn't already know the price. I'd guess, in the case of my own particular bass, that from the way it sounds, it would be in the 8-10K range. Actually, I much prefer my new bass to the old Pollman I owned in grad school.
Steve, do you think Shen might make a "custom" bass? A Rogeri carved flatback maple bass? What would it take to make that happen?
Steve, do you think Shen might make a "custom" bass? A Rogeri carved flatback maple bass? What would it take to make that happen?
Thanks-- I figured that was what you meant. If anything, you'd think the availability of such basses would make the pricey ones worth less!
I sure understand your experience. Seems some of the new basses available are re-defining what quality/sound goes with what price point. My own $10.5k bass fits easily with those traditionally going for $20-30k. In fact, I prefer it to many of them.That's interesting about the 5/8 label mistakes on the Shen Rogeri models. Thanks for that info!
I'm going to try to use my Shen for a few bluegrass gigs, but right now I'm not set up to amplify the Shen. I'm using a realist pickup on my plywood Eberle and also use a Whirlwind direct box. I'm not using a separate amp, but plug into the band's main sound system. We use one condenser mic, and right now aren't even using monitors. Instead of a pickup for the Shen, I'm thinking about getting a clip on mic. Last month I heard and recorded The Creeking Tree String Quartet and the bassist had a clip on mic. It seemed to work really well, but the bassist's mic picked up A LOT of other sound/noise on the stage...so I'm not sure what direction to go for amplifying my Shen.
I'm going to try to use my Shen for a few bluegrass gigs, but right now I'm not set up to amplify the Shen. I'm using a realist pickup on my plywood Eberle and also use a Whirlwind direct box. I'm not using a separate amp, but plug into the band's main sound system. We use one condenser mic, and right now aren't even using monitors. Instead of a pickup for the Shen, I'm thinking about getting a clip on mic. Last month I heard and recorded The Creeking Tree String Quartet and the bassist had a clip on mic. It seemed to work really well, but the bassist's mic picked up A LOT of other sound/noise on the stage...so I'm not sure what direction to go for amplifying my Shen.
I am using the Rev Solo II pickup on mine, and it works great! Very natural uncolored sound. Cheap too...about 140 bucks. I promise you...try the Revolution Solo II on your Shen Rogeri...you'll most likely abandon the Realist. YMMV, but I've used both a lot, and the Rev sounds more natural to me.
Plug that into an AI Contra or a Markbass MiniMark and a 12 Schroeder or EA Wizzy cabinet, you're good to go!
Plug that into an AI Contra or a Markbass MiniMark and a 12 Schroeder or EA Wizzy cabinet, you're good to go!
I have the Rogeri Willow as well. This 5/8 is bigger then most of the 3/4 in the section. It would not fit in my 3/4 Mooradian bag. I agree with the dark sound under the bow, nice growl for pizz. But it does lack some volume in pizz. I gave the obligatos a shot, but quickly moved to Bel Cantos. I have played a Maple Rogeri so they are out there.
Has anyone compared the 190 and Rogeri Willow yet. I have some friends who are looking to upgrade from there 100's and 150's. Another thing is how do they compare to the New Standards?
Chad
Has anyone compared the 190 and Rogeri Willow yet. I have some friends who are looking to upgrade from there 100's and 150's. Another thing is how do they compare to the New Standards?
Chad
Hi Mendry37,
Read this thread through. I have compared the 190 to the willow a few times. The 190 winds, hands down. Louder, quicker, etc. Just a great bass. If someone was looking to upgrade from a 150 or 100, then you can't get any better than the 190. For 3k...it's a small leap, and if i didn't knbow how much this bast cost, I truly would think in the 8K range, or more. It really is that good! My setup guy, Gleen Freese in Ashland Or, was flat-out floored by it, and he's had some really nice old basses come through that shop!
I'm sure once a few more folks get to play or own one of these, the word will be out.
It's interesting that the Rogeri won't fit into your Mooradian bag. I'm actually looking at a new Gollihur deluxe bag for mine...I hope it fits!!
Where did you play a maple Rogeri? I am interested in a flatback only...I know there are roundback Rogeris....I'm looking for a flat.
Too bad you didn't like the Obligatos....what didn't you like about them? Not loud enough? I could see that. I am blowing on Spiro mittles...plenty o' volume out of those but for bowing? Ewww...
Read this thread through. I have compared the 190 to the willow a few times. The 190 winds, hands down. Louder, quicker, etc. Just a great bass. If someone was looking to upgrade from a 150 or 100, then you can't get any better than the 190. For 3k...it's a small leap, and if i didn't knbow how much this bast cost, I truly would think in the 8K range, or more. It really is that good! My setup guy, Gleen Freese in Ashland Or, was flat-out floored by it, and he's had some really nice old basses come through that shop!
I'm sure once a few more folks get to play or own one of these, the word will be out.
It's interesting that the Rogeri won't fit into your Mooradian bag. I'm actually looking at a new Gollihur deluxe bag for mine...I hope it fits!!
Where did you play a maple Rogeri? I am interested in a flatback only...I know there are roundback Rogeris....I'm looking for a flat.
Too bad you didn't like the Obligatos....what didn't you like about them? Not loud enough? I could see that. I am blowing on Spiro mittles...plenty o' volume out of those but for bowing? Ewww...
I have a Shen Willow and a SB190 Rogeri in stock and did a comparison between the two.
Willow: 41" string length
Rogeri Hybrid: 41 1/4" string length
I had them strung initially with Spirocores but found them too bright for orchestra and classical solo work.
Both are with obligatos now and feels good for bowing.
Spirocores would still be the choice for jazz guys, and even more so when the initial brightness has toned down.
The SB190 is a great bass and loud, however the fully carved willow does give a little more in terms of bowing, especially for classical solos. It has a fatter more resonant tone, SB190 a drier tone.
The willow also have an easier reach for higher registers.
The SB190 has more pizzicato focus in terms of projection and note clarity for jazz.
The SB190 is also opening up nicely.
Both are winners in my opinion and have great response for bowing.
Just wondering for those of you who has the SB190. How do you feel about the thickness for the side ribs?
Mine feels very thin and i can easily see instant depression when i push down the ribs with my thumb. Might be the particular wood itself or the thickness. I dun feel that with the willow.
Willow: 41" string length
Rogeri Hybrid: 41 1/4" string length
I had them strung initially with Spirocores but found them too bright for orchestra and classical solo work.
Both are with obligatos now and feels good for bowing.
Spirocores would still be the choice for jazz guys, and even more so when the initial brightness has toned down.
The SB190 is a great bass and loud, however the fully carved willow does give a little more in terms of bowing, especially for classical solos. It has a fatter more resonant tone, SB190 a drier tone.
The willow also have an easier reach for higher registers.
The SB190 has more pizzicato focus in terms of projection and note clarity for jazz.
The SB190 is also opening up nicely.
Both are winners in my opinion and have great response for bowing.
Just wondering for those of you who has the SB190. How do you feel about the thickness for the side ribs?
Mine feels very thin and i can easily see instant depression when i push down the ribs with my thumb. Might be the particular wood itself or the thickness. I dun feel that with the willow.
- Oct 12, 2004
- 1,327
- 587
- 72
- Disclosures
- Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
I've been pushing for a flatback Willow Rogeri model for a year. A Maple flatback would be a great addition as well. I'd be greatly surprised if we dont see some by 2010 NAMM or even before.
Hi Brandon,
That's great that you got to A/B the 2 basses. My Willow did not have a fatter tone than my 190. When I compared the two particular basses, the SB 190 had a fatter, bigger tone. Maybe I just got extremely lucky, and got a GREAT bass! I agree that the 190 has great focus and projection for pizz/jazz.
Perhaps my particular Willow I owned was not as fat sounding or as full as the one you have. Either way, as you said, they are both great basses, and whoever owns either, will be very happy, especially for the ridiculously low coin these go for.
I said it before...my new bass fits me better, and to my ear, sounds better than the old Pollman I had in grad school. A wild statement....maybe. But to me and my ear, I prefer my new 190. My Pollman was a very heavy bass, with a rather thick top. Not nearly as resonant as this one.
You mentioned "give" in the ribs for the 190...they are both willow, and were equally as flexible on both my basses. If you push on the ribs, they are "bouncy", or flexible. Willow is a soft wood. Don't know if it is more or less prone to cracking over time, given its qualities. However, neither of my 2 basses were more "sqishy" in the ribs than the other.
That's great that you got to A/B the 2 basses. My Willow did not have a fatter tone than my 190. When I compared the two particular basses, the SB 190 had a fatter, bigger tone. Maybe I just got extremely lucky, and got a GREAT bass! I agree that the 190 has great focus and projection for pizz/jazz.
Perhaps my particular Willow I owned was not as fat sounding or as full as the one you have. Either way, as you said, they are both great basses, and whoever owns either, will be very happy, especially for the ridiculously low coin these go for.
I said it before...my new bass fits me better, and to my ear, sounds better than the old Pollman I had in grad school. A wild statement....maybe. But to me and my ear, I prefer my new 190. My Pollman was a very heavy bass, with a rather thick top. Not nearly as resonant as this one.
You mentioned "give" in the ribs for the 190...they are both willow, and were equally as flexible on both my basses. If you push on the ribs, they are "bouncy", or flexible. Willow is a soft wood. Don't know if it is more or less prone to cracking over time, given its qualities. However, neither of my 2 basses were more "sqishy" in the ribs than the other.
