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My regret as a bass player

#83
Jimmy M- as an 18 year old, fast playin', effect usin' , double thumpin', Speed junky, 5 string player, I thank you. While so may people will tell you to stop pursuing your instrument to the ends of the earth to fit in with the crowd, sometimes all it takes is a little encouragement from some random guy on the internet to keep me going. From college onward, I'll never lose sight of the things that make me an individual as a player and a sensitive musician, but I get discouraged sometimes too. So thank you, for calling all of us shred heads and young bucks to step up to the plate. Expect great things from the future of the bass community- we stand on the shoulders of giants!
 
#84
thebass905 said:
Jimmy M- as an 18 year old, fast playin', effect usin' , double thumpin', Speed junky, 5 string player, I thank you. While so may people will tell you to stop pursuing your instrument to the ends of the earth to fit in with the crowd, sometimes all it takes is a little encouragement from some random guy on the internet to keep me going. From college onward, I'll never lose sight of the things that make me an individual as a player and a sensitive musician, but I get discouraged sometimes too. So thank you, for calling all of us shred heads and young bucks to step up to the plate. Expect great things from the future of the bass community- we stand on the shoulders of giants!
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You, sir, are the reason I wrote that. I do expect great things from the upcoming generation, things we never dreamed of, but most of all, I want you all to work hard at what you do and have fun. Thanks for chiming in, and don't ever let anyone let the air out of your tires!
 
#85
SoVeryTired said:
My only regret so far is not starting on bass until my mid-30s.
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The good thing is...living to 85 gives you 50 more years of fun!:)

"Don't look back...something might be gaining on you."
Leroy "Satchel" Paige, Baseball Hall of Fame

Satchel was over 40 years old the entire time he played in the pros. He played in the Negro Baseball Leagues for decades prior to the pros. He pitched 3 innings in the pros when he was about 60 years old.

Read about his inspiring accomplishments here: Invalid Link Removed
 
#87
On a less introspective note, it helps to play in bands that have only one guitar player.

All those stupid "rhythm" guitar players mindlessly banging away at 1/8ths or 1/4ths really just ruins a great bass line. ;)
 
#88
adolescent angst aside, Ol Jimmy is given it to ya straight kids. Theres a lot of flashy stuff goin on in bassland these days, but a solid groove will go a long way to further your musical endeavors. Have fun out there
 
#89
bluesblaster said:
adolescent angst aside, Ol Jimmy is given it to ya straight kids. Theres a lot of flashy stuff goin on in bassland these days, but a solid groove will go a long way to further your musical endeavors. Have fun out there
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Ya, you can't run till you can crawl, for sure. But what's funny to me is that most of the world's best groove players are also most of the flashiest chops-possessors out there. Think about it ;)
 
#91
Great stuff JimmyM, thanks for that.

I'm on my second life as a bassist. My first iteration was that pocket guy who played the covers exactly like they were supposed to be played, didn't own a single pedal, and wanted no part of a bass solo.

After a ten plus year break and becoming a father I'm reinventing myself as a bassist, this time to be the bass player I always wanted to be and not just old reliable. I do appreciate the skills I learned in cover bands and keeping it simple and it does make for a strong foundation, but now I want to shread, I want to boom, and I want to sing, so I'm doing it my way this time.

I work hard and support my people and honestly I could care less if I ever make a penny playing bass. I just want to play, I want to jam with creative musicians and most of all i want to enjoy every second of it.

Thanks for reminding me what it's all about brother.

Cheers!

MJW
 
#92
Sweet!

Well so far since writing that, I've done nothing toward that goal ;) But I have a week off coming up. I think I should have 9 or 10 new songs recorded by then.

RIIIIIIIIGHT!
 
#93
MVE said:
You're only 52 dude, no reason to believe your spark is gone. It’s still there and it will come out whenever you play with the right group of musicians.
Do what you got to do to pay the bills, but you need to keep jamming with new people as much as you can; eventually you will find a drummer and others that dig "your” style.
I know that you are thinking, I’m 52, been doing this for 40 years….
Well if you live to be 92, you still got 40 years to go.
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Old is as old feels. Regardless of the age of your body, your spirit is as old - or as young - as you choose it to be. :smug:

MM
 
#95
JimmyM said:
So here's a thread I could only start late at night after one of my gigs...

When I was a kid just starting on bass in the 70's, I didn't want to be someone who sat in the back pounding out roots. Still don't, either. I wanted to sing and I wanted to play my ass off. When it came to bass player influences, back then I was all about John Entwistle, Chris Squire, Mel Schacher, Bootsy, Ronnie Lane, Gary Thain, Louis Johnson, Mars Cowling...all the players who demanded attention be called to their great bass playing. Later in my teens, I expanded to jazzier guys like Stanley Clarke, Andy West, Jaco, etc. Loved punk rock and butt rock as well, but was way more interested in Bruce Thomas and Graham Maby than I was Dee Dee Ramone, though I've always had a special fondness for Cliff Williams and Gene Simmons. But for the music I wanted to make, I wanted to use effects, I wanted to be loud, and I wanted to be entertaining and fun to watch.

Then I got out into the world of trying to find bands to play out. I'd jam with people and I'd get, "You play really well but you overplay," or "We're not looking for a lead bassist" or "Can't you just play the song and quit hopping around?" My favorite, though, was when I'd write songs and show them to everyone else, and they'd say, "Sounds like a bass player wrote these songs."

Wow, cold reality slapping me in the face with a dead fish! I determined that I wasn't going to get anywhere by being an awesome shredder (or whatever we called it back then), and I would strive to overcome the overplaying rap I had with being a dependable bassist who played the cover songs like they're supposed to be played and wrote songs that didn't feature the bass playing so much. I ended up staying fairly busy most of the time and it was cool.

But over time, and it took me a long time to realize it, I lost the qualities that made me unique and fun to listen to when I was just starting out, and I got assimilated into the Borg. I tried to write people-pleasing songs that sounded like whatever was current in rock and roll, and none of them had the flashy bass playing of the earliest stuff I did when I was trying to please myself above all else. As a result, nothing I did stood out from the pack, and it was all just OK and kind of boring and was treated as such by audiences.

Meanwhile, a whole slew of bassists with flashy chops who stuck to their guns were the ones really getting out there and making a name for themselves professionally. And by the time I realized I lost the spark, well let's face it...nobody was looking for me at my age. And now at 52, I still love and play music and have a lot of fun doing it and my band is quite well-respected on the 50's-60's-70's oldies circuit, but it only occasionally requires chops playing, and there are a few thousand bass players out there who can play bass in my stead, though if I whittle out the bass players who can't sing good harmonies and a decent lead, we're down to maybe a couple thousand.

Why am I spilling my guts like this? It's because I know some kids with talent and a dream like I once had are coming onto Talkbass every day, and one day they're going to post something about wanting to be unique and play in a unique style that's different from the norm. And I know the Bass Borg on here is going to tell them that they need to settle down, learn how to play simple repetitive lines, and know their role as a bass player.

And kids, if you're reading this, I want you to completely disregard anything they have to say about bass playing from there on out. I'll be the first to tell a young bass player that if they can't play "Back In Black" or "No Ordinary Love" without a solid groove that their work developing into a great bass player is far from over. I'll also be the first to tell them the realities of getting a paycheck from playing music, and that is if you're looking for people to hire you, give them what they want in return for the money you want or they will find someone else.

But you know what? When you're on your own time, you can do whatever the heck you want. No law says you can't do two or more bands at once. No law says you can't make yourself the star attraction. Pursue your vision to its fullest no matter whether it's being a solid dependable bassist in someone's working cover band or writing and recording the music in your head no matter how out there it may seem to some. Search for like minded musicians that are as interested in your vision as you are. If you can't find like minded musicians, do it yourself. Learn to play and program other instruments, or just do it all with your bass if you'd rather. And don't make any apologies about wanting to be a badass, stay true to your vision, and most of all, ignore those bass players who tell you how you should be playing.

If I could do one thing over again, I would have never made apologies about wanting to be a badass. The music business is such that I likely would have ended up right where I'm at anyway, but I'll never know now. So as I close in on AARP membership, I'm going to follow my own advice. Not quitting my gig or anything, but off the gig, I'm going to have fun with making my own music my own way for my own self-gratification. And I won't ever reach Bieber status with it but it's going to be one of a kind, and all of the soul-sucking forces out there who think I should fulfill their idea of what I should be doing as a bass player can suck their own souls. And if my music is polarizing and a lot of people don't like it, I will remind myself that there are 5000 bass players who could be the bass player with Bieber, but there is only one Les Claypool. It's pretty much a given that I won't ever reach Claypool status, but I will have fun making music my own way, and that's all he ever cared about, and that's all I care about.

So if there's one piece of advice I could pass along to bass players whose vision of music is unique and different and doesn't fulfill the typical bass "role," it's this (cue stirring marching music)...

The odds of you being a famous musician are astronomically against you no matter what you do, but if you have something that makes you unique, you will at least be the only person in the world from which they can get your special brand of music delivered in a style only you can deliver. Do what you feel you must in order to pay the bills, but pursue that uniqueness to its fullest whenever you can, have as much fun as humanly possible with it, and don't ever lose it no matter who tells you it's no good and won't sell. You can be one of a kind or one of many. It's up to you.
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Man! You hit the nail on the head and knocked the ball out of the park. If I could do anything over I would have blissfully ignored/avoided all of those who put me in a box-the guitar player (since retired) who rejected the songs I brought into our Fusion Band as "a bunch of riffs strung together" (just like the Billy Cobham albums I was listening to), the folks in Nashville who told a newbie to ditch his Alembic and get a Fender and work on my background vocals, the band manager who chastised me for "playing too many notes in a Jazz Fusion manner" on a Hair Metal Band gig while simultaneously not paying my retainer in a timely manner (welcome to the world of Big Time Rock and Roll, kiddies). If I had spent more time seeking out my own voice and less time trying to be everybody's bass player I would have been in a different place-not that where I'm at right now isn't a good one. I only started getting somewhere when I stopped trying to be like everyone else and finally started honing in on what mattered to me and what made me unique. I can still be a Musical Taxicab, but I can keep the Ferrari out back and take it out for a spin as well.;) Well said, JimmyM! :hyper:
 
#97
I love you!! I'm in that exact position... and now I'll do whatever I like and won't let anyone kill my dreams :)
Every day I hear music in my head that I believe could change music, and every day I thrive to be able to release it into the real world and share with everyone. You just gave me the motivation to do so and to try harder.
Thank you <3
 
#98
Roy Vogt said:
Man! You hit the nail on the head and knocked the ball out of the park. If I could do anything over I would have blissfully ignored/avoided all of those who put me in a box-the guitar player (since retired) who rejected the songs I brought into our Fusion Band as "a bunch of riffs strung together" (just like the Billy Cobham albums I was listening to), the folks in Nashville who told a newbie to ditch his Alembic and get a Fender and work on my background vocals, the band manager who chastised me for "playing too many notes in a Jazz Fusion manner" on a Hair Metal Band gig while simultaneously not paying my retainer in a timely manner (welcome to the world of Big Time Rock and Roll, kiddies). If I had spent more time seeking out my own voice and less time trying to be everybody's bass player I would have been in a different place-not that where I'm at right now isn't a good one. I only started getting somewhere when I stopped trying to be like everyone else and finally started honing in on what mattered to me and what made me unique. I can still be a Musical Taxicab, but I can keep the Ferrari out back and take it out for a spin as well.;) Well said, JimmyM! :hyper:
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Thanks, Roy...but gee whiz...I always thought of you as one of the more adventurous folks I was talking about who made a name for himself that way ;) However, after hearing you kill on some Cream lead vox a few months ago, I'm glad you listened to the dude who told you to work on your singing. I thought you did great with it.
 
#99
A wise man once said : "If you expect anything from music, you're expecting to much."

As long as you have fun doing it, that's the way to go. I've been playing for 9 years now and I'm not nearly as technical as i would like to be. I never took a class in my life, but i'm having fun playing, i have my own technique and it works in the band i'm in.
I also started learning guitar on my own, been doing this for like 1 year maybe and it mostly is me coming up with the basic guitar part for our songs, just because i have no basic knowledge to fall back on. I keep trying things until they sound good to me and our guitarist takes it from there :D

I don't think any of the great musicians we so look up to ever started with the goal of making a living out of playing. It's just fun and that's why we do it!

Great post Jimmy!
 

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