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My regret as a bass player
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
I think a good way to avoid all this crap is to start your own band. Originals or covers, if it's YOUR band YOU decide how you're gonna play. I don't know why it always seems to be that "band leaders" have to be guitar players or singers or anyone BUT the bassist.
Personally i was always told i have an unorthodox style (fairly melodic which isnt that unusual but not what most people are used to) and people usually liked me for it (but i'll say i think i am good at playing to a song, i never was into being overly technical and "all over the place", my goal is to play just enough notes
, not too few, not too many) but i was always forced to compromise on what we played not being the main songwriter. Ten years ago almost i said f it to all this and that any band i'd be in would be my band, not someone else's. Now i write 100% of my songs (bass, guitar, keyboard, percussions) and i wouldn't have it any other way anymore. It probably helps that the style of music i favor does not call for very technical guitar playing but still. This way i never again have to deal with guitarists who want to play solos all the time or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the kind that can only ever think of playing power chords.
Personally i was always told i have an unorthodox style (fairly melodic which isnt that unusual but not what most people are used to) and people usually liked me for it (but i'll say i think i am good at playing to a song, i never was into being overly technical and "all over the place", my goal is to play just enough notes
, not too few, not too many) but i was always forced to compromise on what we played not being the main songwriter. Ten years ago almost i said f it to all this and that any band i'd be in would be my band, not someone else's. Now i write 100% of my songs (bass, guitar, keyboard, percussions) and i wouldn't have it any other way anymore. It probably helps that the style of music i favor does not call for very technical guitar playing but still. This way i never again have to deal with guitarists who want to play solos all the time or on the opposite end of the spectrum, the kind that can only ever think of playing power chords.
Fantastic. Pretty much agree. The trick IMO is to make busy playing, effects, etc. work within the context of the music and not stick out like a sore thumb, step all over the singer or soloing instruments, or appear as wankery or showboating. Back in the late 80s when I was playing mostly jazz fusion and funk, I got the idea when subbing with a country rock outfit to slap during the instrumental breaks on the CCR song "Down on the Corner"--if the whole band were funking the song up from the start that would have been great, but it ended up sounding pretty ridiculous.
On the other hand--I sometimes sub for an indie band whom a reviewer once wrote about as "taking simplicity to the extreme," which is definitely true of the bass in that band's albums, but they love that I can play busy/melodic runs a la Bruce Thomas and Graham Maby (nice reference to them above JimmyM!) that give the songs an extra kick. Funny though--when I sub on guitar with the same band, I do want the bass to hold the groove more than perhaps I might have--and everyone yells at me at rehearsals for being too loud
On the other hand--I sometimes sub for an indie band whom a reviewer once wrote about as "taking simplicity to the extreme," which is definitely true of the bass in that band's albums, but they love that I can play busy/melodic runs a la Bruce Thomas and Graham Maby (nice reference to them above JimmyM!) that give the songs an extra kick. Funny though--when I sub on guitar with the same band, I do want the bass to hold the groove more than perhaps I might have--and everyone yells at me at rehearsals for being too loud
Philip Glass was famously driving a cab while his first opera was being performed.
Jimmy - I couldn't agree more. I read your initial post but frankly I'm at work and don't have the time to read the whole thing - so I do apologize if I retread old ground here.
I have been wrestling with much the same idea for a while now. When I began "seriously" playing bass in college, I was a huge Phish-head and big into the jam band and Acid Jazz scenes. As such I tended to be a busier player - I never thought I was playing inappropriately, just doing more than banging out roots & fifths all night. Anyway, I realized earlier on that I wasn't going have crazy technical chops - speed was not my forte and my slapping sounded better the less I did it. Ok, no problem, I'll model my life after Duck Dunn and just be an all out groove player. Stay in the pocket, lock it tight and be the most reliable and consistent bass player who can play any tune.
Fast forward 15 years and that's the guy I am - as a player I'm very solid and very reliable. However I feel like I've ignored my own personality in the process. So, in the last year I've been working on not caring what everybody else thinks and trusting my own instincts. I play more when I feel like it and when it's warranted, but I play less when it's called for. If a band wants me to play but they don't trust me as a bassist and as a musician, then I'm not interested.
For years I tried to make sure I delivered what I thought everyone else wanted from a bass player but now I need to do what I think is right - ultimately I'll be a better and more inspiring player.
I have been wrestling with much the same idea for a while now. When I began "seriously" playing bass in college, I was a huge Phish-head and big into the jam band and Acid Jazz scenes. As such I tended to be a busier player - I never thought I was playing inappropriately, just doing more than banging out roots & fifths all night. Anyway, I realized earlier on that I wasn't going have crazy technical chops - speed was not my forte and my slapping sounded better the less I did it. Ok, no problem, I'll model my life after Duck Dunn and just be an all out groove player. Stay in the pocket, lock it tight and be the most reliable and consistent bass player who can play any tune.
Fast forward 15 years and that's the guy I am - as a player I'm very solid and very reliable. However I feel like I've ignored my own personality in the process. So, in the last year I've been working on not caring what everybody else thinks and trusting my own instincts. I play more when I feel like it and when it's warranted, but I play less when it's called for. If a band wants me to play but they don't trust me as a bassist and as a musician, then I'm not interested.
For years I tried to make sure I delivered what I thought everyone else wanted from a bass player but now I need to do what I think is right - ultimately I'll be a better and more inspiring player.
Little Richard was washing dishes at a restaurant when someone came running in to tell him that "Tutti Frutti" was #1.
Great post. Can be said about so many other aspects of our lives as well.
Reminds me of something that my dad used to say which I find myself now saying as well... "Too soon old, too late smart."
Something about your urging kids to find a medium between doing what you want to do and what you need to do reminded me of this segment of the Aja - Classic Albums series from Chuck Rainey regarding his playing on Peg. Starts about 0:13:17...
Reminds me of something that my dad used to say which I find myself now saying as well... "Too soon old, too late smart."
Something about your urging kids to find a medium between doing what you want to do and what you need to do reminded me of this segment of the Aja - Classic Albums series from Chuck Rainey regarding his playing on Peg. Starts about 0:13:17...
Wow, this thread exploded while I slept! Thanks for all the nice comments and for sharing some of your own experiences wrestling with this. Someone in the thread said there's nothing wrong with being a good meat and potatoes bassist. I agree. No reason you can't be that AND a shredder 
Inspiring post, Jimmy - thank you.
I think the heart of it all is letting yourself hear the music, and asking what's the very best you can contribute to it. Sometimes the very best thing you can do is lay back and play the foundation. Other times the best thing is to stretch out and set off some fireworks. Neither is the right way or the wrong way - it's just what makes the best music in that setting.
To drag another TB debate into this thread, that's the problem I have with the idea that covers should always be played note-for-note the way it was on some iconic recording. That may have been the best way for THAT bassist to play the music at THAT moment, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way for YOU to play it at THIS moment, with a different band, a different crowd, a different time, a different vibe. Sometimes it's best to lay back more than the bassist on the recording did - sometimes it's best to push forward more than that bassist did. Knowing when to do which is what being a musician is really about.
I think the heart of it all is letting yourself hear the music, and asking what's the very best you can contribute to it. Sometimes the very best thing you can do is lay back and play the foundation. Other times the best thing is to stretch out and set off some fireworks. Neither is the right way or the wrong way - it's just what makes the best music in that setting.
To drag another TB debate into this thread, that's the problem I have with the idea that covers should always be played note-for-note the way it was on some iconic recording. That may have been the best way for THAT bassist to play the music at THAT moment, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way for YOU to play it at THIS moment, with a different band, a different crowd, a different time, a different vibe. Sometimes it's best to lay back more than the bassist on the recording did - sometimes it's best to push forward more than that bassist did. Knowing when to do which is what being a musician is really about.
Nice post Jimmy.
Many of us have gone through a strange stylistic journey to get here, and I can totally relate to yours, even though mine was quite different.
I started out with many years of classical violin training, eventually moving on to playing rock/fusion/jazz violin, and shredding was of course my raison d'etre. Along the way I discovered the electric bass, and after a few years that became my main instrument (my old violin teacher was NOT happy that I was playing a "toy" instrument). I stopped playing the violin about 15 years ago.
I made the decision to not pursue music as a career, which enabled me to play whatever kind of music I wanted. Nevertheless, over the years, my playing on the bass went from very technical (coming from violin, I was used to lots of notes and melody) to very groove-oriented and simple. A few months ago I even started playing flatwounds with a pick.
Recently I've had a musical midlife crisis as many of us seem to. Although I love playing electric bass, it sometimes feels a bit shallow and limited in some ways. Much of this is due to the perception of how it "should" be played.
My reaction has been to pick up the violin again. Although my technique is a shadow of what it once was, I've grown musically, so I can hear much better now. Maybe I'll get to be better than I was in my 20's...
I've also decided to get serious and learn to play the double bass. I already know much of the fingering from bass guitar, and I know how to bow from violin. How hard could it be?
I may have found a great deal on a nice double bass, I'll hopefully be picking it up this weekend.
My dream is to play in a big band and a community orchestra, and maybe to explore some crazy avant-garde stuff on the ancient acoustic instruments, where it paradoxically seems a bit more accepted to step outside the box.
Now if my wife's career would just take off, I could retire and annoy everybody by playing screaming shred on the electric bass, high bowed melodies on upright, and pizzicato ostinatos on violin.
Many of us have gone through a strange stylistic journey to get here, and I can totally relate to yours, even though mine was quite different.
I started out with many years of classical violin training, eventually moving on to playing rock/fusion/jazz violin, and shredding was of course my raison d'etre. Along the way I discovered the electric bass, and after a few years that became my main instrument (my old violin teacher was NOT happy that I was playing a "toy" instrument). I stopped playing the violin about 15 years ago.
I made the decision to not pursue music as a career, which enabled me to play whatever kind of music I wanted. Nevertheless, over the years, my playing on the bass went from very technical (coming from violin, I was used to lots of notes and melody) to very groove-oriented and simple. A few months ago I even started playing flatwounds with a pick.
Recently I've had a musical midlife crisis as many of us seem to. Although I love playing electric bass, it sometimes feels a bit shallow and limited in some ways. Much of this is due to the perception of how it "should" be played.My reaction has been to pick up the violin again. Although my technique is a shadow of what it once was, I've grown musically, so I can hear much better now. Maybe I'll get to be better than I was in my 20's...
I've also decided to get serious and learn to play the double bass. I already know much of the fingering from bass guitar, and I know how to bow from violin. How hard could it be?
I may have found a great deal on a nice double bass, I'll hopefully be picking it up this weekend.
My dream is to play in a big band and a community orchestra, and maybe to explore some crazy avant-garde stuff on the ancient acoustic instruments, where it paradoxically seems a bit more accepted to step outside the box.
Now if my wife's career would just take off, I could retire and annoy everybody by playing screaming shred on the electric bass, high bowed melodies on upright, and pizzicato ostinatos on violin.
BEST POST EVER. I find much more enjoyment in writing my own stuff, have for over 30yrs. But, it is also great to nail that one song that always bugged ya.
Thanks for taking the time to write this awesome piece. I hope it helps many on the fence find their way
Wow, this thread exploded while I slept! Thanks for all the nice comments and for sharing some of your own experiences wrestling with this. Someone in the thread said there's nothing wrong with being a good meat and potatoes bassist. I agree. No reason you can't be that AND a shredder
If you're a musician I don't see how you don't struggle with this issue. It's life itself.....conformity vs. individuality. There's no real answer, just the struggle like you say.
Good post.
You're only 52 dude, no reason to believe your spark is gone. It’s still there and it will come out whenever you play with the right group of musicians.
Do what you got to do to pay the bills, but you need to keep jamming with new people as much as you can; eventually you will find a drummer and others that dig "your” style.
I know that you are thinking, I’m 52, been doing this for 40 years….
Well if you live to be 92, you still got 40 years to go.
Do what you got to do to pay the bills, but you need to keep jamming with new people as much as you can; eventually you will find a drummer and others that dig "your” style.
I know that you are thinking, I’m 52, been doing this for 40 years….
Well if you live to be 92, you still got 40 years to go.
I think it is ok to play alot of notes if they serve the song. Its all about taste imo...
I once saw this bassplayer who tried to improvise the intro of sweet child o mine, and god it was horrible....and this is coming from a bassist who is guilty of overplaying from time to time. Sometimes is cool to sneak in a lick of 2, or even throw in a bass solo if it doesnt kill the groove.... but on some occasions its better to just keep it chill.
eg. when I cover gnr and rhcp tunes I play a different lick everytime, but for a song like 'creep' by radiohead or 'zombie' by cranberries, I can't imagine myself playing anything else other than the root.
I once saw this bassplayer who tried to improvise the intro of sweet child o mine, and god it was horrible....and this is coming from a bassist who is guilty of overplaying from time to time. Sometimes is cool to sneak in a lick of 2, or even throw in a bass solo if it doesnt kill the groove.... but on some occasions its better to just keep it chill.
eg. when I cover gnr and rhcp tunes I play a different lick everytime, but for a song like 'creep' by radiohead or 'zombie' by cranberries, I can't imagine myself playing anything else other than the root.
I'm 18 and looking for the perfect blend between melody and groove. I can lean to one of them more, though. Depends on the situation.
Also, I've never been a shredder, or a real slapper. And I probably never will be. Of course, I play slap, but not that ultra-fast Flea style. I'm more of a Marcus, without the bass melody part. Think 'Run for Cover'.
Long story short, I love my P with flats.
Just my 2 cents.
Also, I've never been a shredder, or a real slapper. And I probably never will be. Of course, I play slap, but not that ultra-fast Flea style. I'm more of a Marcus, without the bass melody part. Think 'Run for Cover'.
Long story short, I love my P with flats.
Just my 2 cents.
