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My Son is embarrassed

Starting a business requires start up capital.

Living in society requires an income.

One shouldn't have to have the luxury of capital to retain privacy.

+1

Anytime anyone makes the "well, you're just free to go to another employer/start your own business," I recomend a very important article written in the 1920s by Robert Lee Hale, titled Coercion and Distribution in a Supposedly Non-Coercive State.

Hale does a pretty good job of dispelling the "everyone has complete freedom in a market" myth.
 
Because all drug users are thieving addicts.

Of course not. But they are much more likely to do so than someone who does not, and they are much less likely to be longer-term, reliable and consistent as compared with someone who does not.

It does not mean that they are all that way. But it's an absolutely insane denial of reality to say that there is no statistical difference between the future hazards involved in hiring someone who tests positive for meth than for someone who does not.
 
NEWS ALERT:

The company just called him and he got the job (whew!)!!

Maybe the dump-taking during the interview impressed them. Or the amount? Or how carefully he draped TP over the mess? Dunno. But he got the job.
 
Yes. Seriously.

Employers or prospective employers shouldn't be allowed to demand bodily fluids from us any more than they should be allowed to tap my phone calls, put a GPS on my personal vehicle, have access to my social network accounts, or any other violation of my privacy, all of which could certainly be argued are "for safety." If I'm not fit to perform a job function, than that should be clear by my work record, not the contents of my urine.

If a court needs a warrant to get it, why should my boss or my potential boss be allowed to take it or deny me employment?

Why are they allowed? Well.... You sign the paper stating that they have the right too.... You dont have to let them, they are not forcing you . Do I agree with the polocy? Not at all. Its all about the insurance and the "almighty dollar".
 
NEWS ALERT:

The company just called him and he got the job (whew!)!!

Maybe the dump-taking during the interview impressed them. Or the amount? Or how carefully he draped TP over the mess? Dunno. But he got the job.

Congrats!

So there ya go, everyone. Drop a deuce at your next pre-emp drug screening. It can either be a concise commentary on your feelings about said screening or a way to show that you'll go the extra mile to follow the rules - no matter how embarrassing it might be to do so.
 
And it is not egregious - if you don't want to submit to a test - DON'T WORK THERE. Very simple.

Oh you need to provide your social networking passwords to work here by the way. Oh you don't like it? That's ok, just go and get another job instead! Oh, they require one too?

You need to install this GPS tracker in your car to work here, just incase you were thinking of doing anything illegal or taking a fake sick day.

Oh you'll need to use this company issue mobile phone to work here, wouldn't want you doing anything we don't know about now, would we?

etc. etc.

But that's all ok. Because you have the CHOICE to work there. I mean, you can choose to be homeless if it means that much to you, right?


Of course not. But they are much more likely to do so than someone who does not, and they are much less likely to be longer-term, reliable and consistent as compared with someone who does not.

It does not mean that they are all that way. But it's an absolutely insane denial of reality to say that there is no statistical difference between the future hazards involved in hiring someone who tests positive for meth than for someone who does not.

I'm not sure where find the information to make those claims? Some sort of statistical analysis, or just your own personal experience? I guess you could argue that it's common sense, but I'd argue that a lot more people use drugs than you think.

Regardless, i'm fairly sure there is a term for that. It's called discrimination and largely frowned upon, particularly when it comes to hiring people for a job.


Just because somebody appears to fit into category X, doesn't mean you should assume that they do. Not to mention, if they can show up to an interview on time and as far as you are aware are an otherwise employable person, why should you even bother to drug test them.

"Well, it looks like you have the experience and expertise we require, but first I'll need to come back to your house and make sure you keep it clean and tidy, despite the fact that it's completely irrelevant to your job performance."

I don't disagree with ensuring your employees are capable. And I don't disagree with firing employees who show up to work under the influence of impairing drugs (illegal or otherwise), what I disagree with is the metric of peeing in a cup to discern whether or not somebody is a capable employee, despite the fact that it provides little or no indication.


NEWS ALERT:

The company just called him and he got the job (whew!)!!

Maybe the dump-taking during the interview impressed them. Or the amount? Or how carefully he draped TP over the mess? Dunno. But he got the job.


Congrats! It's all about making a good first impression :smug:
 
tZer said:
Congrats!

So there ya go, everyone. Drop a deuce at your next pre-emp drug screening. It can either be a concise commentary on your feelings about said screening or a way to show that you'll go the extra mile to follow the rules - no matter how embarrassing it might be to do so.

I don't know about the OPS son but everyone I take a drug test its at a third party clinic, you taking a dump would have nothing to do with getting hired or fired.
 
Yes. Seriously.

Employers or prospective employers shouldn't be allowed to demand bodily fluids from us any more than they should be allowed to tap my phone calls, put a GPS on my personal vehicle, have access to my social network accounts, or any other violation of my privacy, all of which could certainly be argued are "for safety." If I'm not fit to perform a job function, than that should be clear by my work record, not the contents of my urine.

If a court needs a warrant to get it, why should my boss or my potential boss be allowed to take it or deny me employment?

Ah yes...the old I'm being "denied employment" argument that fails all logical and reason. You are not being denied employment when the only option for that employment is that you demand to be hired under the rules that you have created. Obviously, you have never run a business.
 
duff beer said:
Ah yes...the old I'm being "denied employment" argument that fails all logical and reason. You are not being denied employment when the only option for that employment is that you demand to be hired under the rules that you have created. Obviously, you have never run a business.

Employers are starting to demand more than the contracted hours, wanting the intimate details of how you live outside the job. That's not a healthy thing.
 
Cool ,he got the job ,awesome !!!!!!!

Will his supervisor be the same one who enjoyed the aroma of a fudge dragon swimming around like the tidy bowl man ....

That would be awkward and teach some lessons as well.

Good luck!!!!!!
 
Well, he was smart enough to not dredge it out and put it in his pocket to save the embarrassment of them seeing it in the stool. I dunno----that was an option I guess, however how ill-advised.

His future should be bright there for a while. The boss probably heard about it and may even have been impressed. I'm sure he'll keep an eye on him for a while though.
 
While that's a well-reasoned argument, the counter to that is many selection protocols have poor criterion-validity (i.e., they're not necessarily predictive of future performance). If employers understood that more, so many of them wouldn't base their hiring decisions primarily on how candidates perform in job interviews.

It's been a while since I've looked at the literature, but I have done some research into pre-employment drug screening. From what I remember, it really wasn't effective at screening out candidates. Unfortunately, I can't remember all of the details at the moment. :hmm:

Pre-employment urinalysis is certainly effective in identifying candidates who are too stupid to pass. A guy who can't figure out how to provide clean urine has no business driving a forklift.
 
Ah yes...the old I'm being "denied employment" argument that fails all logical and reason. You are not being denied employment when the only option for that employment is that you demand to be hired under the rules that you have created. Obviously, you have never run a business.

For the record, I have been with the same company for over a decade and always am sober -- although I love a good microbrew in my off time. I have never had to perform a drug test, so this really isn't something that effects me on a personal level.

I do strongly believe in the right to privacy, and coercion into supplying samples oversteps my personal view of what's an appropriate invasion of that privacy-- even though I could easily pass one, they shouldn't have the ability to ask.

This should be part of workers' rights.
 

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