• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

My terrible Mike Arnopol experience

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have no dog in this fight. I've never met the OP, although we do live within driving distance of each other. I've never met Mike Arnopol. I have spoken to him on the phone once for about 25 minutes regarding his Big E cabs.

My question is about the problem with the woofer. I would love to know what the issue turned out to be. Many of us are willing to open up a cab and try to fix a problem ourselves so we don't have to ship back to the builder. Knowing what your woofer's issue was could save some us time and grief if we ever encounter the same thing. I had a mysterious buzz in a new speaker cab once and the builder was able to help me resolve the problem long distance. Yes, it was a problem with the woofers.

M. M.

i wish i could use the right terms to define the woofer issue. i wish i could give first-hand judgement on the issue. however, this is not my area of knowledge and i'm at the mercy of relying on others. as it was described to me, there was a basic bit of electrical testing which was done (and could reasonably be expected of a greenboy AB) which showed that the woofer was definitely in need of repair. what has yet to happen is the woofer replacement and confirmation that the symptom is resolved.
 
Ok

The reason I didn't post right away was I was so upset and saddened by this I had to wait until morning. I didn't sleep at all. I just took an hour walk in the cold to try to center myself before posting.
I personally don't mind the title. He has every right to post whatever he pleases

Monster is a really good guy. Even if he trash talked I would still choose to view him in a positive light.

I appreciate compliments but what I really listen to and take seriously is criticism. I make mistakes. I do my best to learn from them.

This has been one of the most frustrating and saddening things I've ever gone through.

One thing that keeps me from sinking into depression over this is my track record and reputation. I've made over 60 composite cabs.I have taken back 5 for repair that were due to problems in construction.All of them were the earliest cabs. Except for Monster's I never saw them a second time. I even checked in to insure that everything was cool. I had 4 where I had to replace a defective tweeter. Greenboy insisted on using an Eminence APT80 tweeter. It's cheap. Around $20. But it's a threaded plastic horn with a 1 1/2# driver hanging on it. An accident waiting to happen. They break. I know that there are many out there that haven't but I know at least one authorized buider that has had them break. I begged Greenboy to switch it but he wouldn't. I paid shipping back from Korea to replace one damaged in shipping. Most that were returned were damaged in shipping. It got to the point where I wouldn't take an order for a cab that used it.

Ken Jung had a problem with a very early composite cab. Just a wire vibrating against something. I fixed it and it worked perfectly. I then learned that with composite cabs different rules applied. EVERY wire had to be isolated and affixed. Never had that problem again.

As far as wood cabinets I have had one of about 70 come back. Unfortunately it was from Norway! It was a simple fix.

I have had two people of all I have dealt with that just thought my work sucked. (Monster being one)

I have taken one cabinet back where it just didn't suit the buyer's needs.I refunded his money.

This is just one of those "haunted cabs" situations for me. I really did my best to try to rectify the situation. I've never been as frustrated.

His was one of my first composite cabs. As I stated---it was a learning experience. I refined and improved with every cab I made. And was determined to learn from and never make the same mistake a second time.

Here's one of the weirdest things. His cab was used to demo for local guys when it was here. Before the first one shipped. Again after repairs were made. And the last one with the "blown" driver----it was demoed an hour before I packed it to ship. I did delay in shipping then for 2 days so the guy could check it out. He loved it. The guys that tried the original cab at various times it was here loved it. That cab has generated 5 local cabinet sales. These are all top professional players. None of them witnessed a blown driver. Neither did I. Maybe we were all mistaken and it was blown. I am known for having a really good ear. I couldn't hear it. Checking for a blown driver is the first thing I do. Replacing a blown driver is an easy thing---it doesn't cost me any money. I deal with the top guys at Eminence all the time. If I called them they would ship me a replacement that day. I'd ship them the driver. They would determine whether it was damaged by material defect or abuse. Material defect---they pay. Abuse---the customer pays. No skin off my nose either way. My deliveries from Eminence are two days.

I'm not saying Monster is lying---I don't think he's that kind of guy.

The first time it was sent back I played it. I had to play it really loud to hear any problem. At a volume that no one would play in their house and wouldn't notice anything on a gig I heard a slight buzz coming from a crossover component. At the time I had just used wire ties to secure capacitors. I then used hot melt and wire ties. Never had that problem again. I also did some repairs to a few places that were minorly bashed. I had to redo the red Duratex on the whole cab. No charge.I had a guy stop over and try it He ordered one.

The next time was the Fedex fiasco. I rebuilt the entire cab. The good thing about the composites is that when you do a repair it's actually stronger than the original cab. I redid the entire crossover. I had used typical grill clamps originally. To try to make up for Monster's inconvenience I did some upgrades. I filled in the holes (with epoxy) from the original clamps. I ordered new Penn Elcom grills---much better looking than the waffle grills---and installed them with a new integral mounting system. I wanted to do everything I could to make this unpleasant experience better. I shook the cab. I tossed it in the air. I took it outside and ran it to full volume to insure that there were no problems. I had a list of locals wanting to try a Fearful 15/6. One came by, loved it, and ordered one.

I had by then improved my boxing and packing. Everything was double boxed with double thickness carboard. The eqivalent of 4 thicknesses. I make custom packing corners of 2" polyethelene foam.

Monster received it and said there were problems. I was beside myself. I said that I'd make him a new fEarless 115 at no charge. I used Okume plywood ($100 upcharge). His original cab didn't have the tweeter. I included the better tweeter and horn (Faital---I wouldn't use the APT80)
It did take too long. I was really sick from fiberglass. Also, Greenboy had spec'd a certain Faital mid. Faital had discontinued this mid (12 ohm) and replaced it with an 8 ohm mid. I begged Greenboy to redo the crossover for the over-the-counter mid. Instead, they talked Faital into bringing some of the 12 ohm drivers back into the country. It was stupid. It would have been simple to redo the crossover. I had to order directly from Faital as Speaker Hardware had none in stock. (and would likely be unable to get them in the future) Faital is great if you're buying a box of drivers. You don't want to buy singles. They throw it in the box and hope for the best. Literally. I buy a lot of drivers directly from Faital. The first 5" mid they sent had the terminals broken off. They sent a second one that had a hole in the cone. I talked to the rep complaining. He said they were unaccustomed to shipping individual drivers. The third one they sent had a small dent in the dust cap.I talked to Leland and was able to use a small needle to pop it back out. Tested it and it was fine. This took a frustrating month back and forth. Wouldn't have happened if we just switched to the 8 ohm mid.

I finished the cab and was very proud of it. Shook it, tossed it, cranked it. It sounded great. I must have missed the fact that it was blown as did the top pro that was over and tried it.

My next communication from Monster was that it sounded like crap and don't contact him unless it was for a full refund. To be honest---at this point I wasn't willing to issue a full refund. He had the cab. Had a problem. I fixed it. (after an afternoon trying to locate it). I did not hear back from him immediately that there was a problem. So at the time I assumed it was fixed. It was a while where he communicated that the problem was back. At this point it ---in my book--changed from an originally shipped defect to warranty problem. For warranty problems typically it's fixed for free but the customer pays shipping. I paid all shipping myself, Over $400 total. I offered and built a new cab----with options beyond the first cab.

To be honest---I have no idea what was happening. Ultimatums were issued and communication shut down. It was a total nightmare for me. At this point I would have paid shipping and had the cab returned and fixed it. I was not offered that option.

Every time I shipped back to him I confirmed with objective sources that the cab functioned well. I'm not accusing Monster of anything. This is the only cab out of about 150 that has ever had problems like this. Any builder or repairman can diss some one else's work.

Fortunately, my reputation speaks for itself. While since I'm a one-man shop sometimes communication may have slipped---I've taken great pains to rectify that. Fortunately (or unfortunately) my orders are increasing as is my customer satisfaction.

Although this is a single isolated incident--it impacts me stronger in an emotional way then what has been almost exclusively successes. I tried my best. I think that Monster is a good guy and wish him the best.

I will not post on this topic again.

Mike's post aligns with my experience, for the most part. I am not sure when the bolded section above is in the chain, as I was always quick to reply on the issues. There may have been a day or two lag between receipt and my contact, but nothing significant.

I agree that his offer to come out of pocket on shipping and build costs was very generous. It was his suggestion and I agreed to it. The only demand/ultimatum I issued was after this last receipt, two weeks ago; I took a day or two to consider how to proceed, and decided I had no more energy for finding a solution involving Mike. I have no interest in wasting more of his time and energy and/or money on this project. If he wanted to write me a refund (which I didn't honestly expect would happen; I only offered at an option for closure because I knew he felt bad about the whole ordeal), then I'd be willing to hear from him, otherwise, it was time for us to part ways.

It sure sounds like he had good luck with the cabinet in his hands. I can't explain why it developed issues between his door and mine. Whatever the answer is, the solution doesn't appear to include shipping the cab across the country again. I have said it before and I will say it agian, I do wish him and his future customers better results.
 
Excellent post/response Mike.


Hmm. After reading Mike’s reply - its seems to me that anyone wanting a better Fearful type cabinet should a have Mike build it for them with the better unauthorized parts - just saying.


Ok

The reason I didn't post right away was I was so upset and saddened by this I had to wait until morning. I didn't sleep at all. I just took an hour walk in the cold to try to center myself before posting.
I personally don't mind the title. He has every right to post whatever he pleases

Monster is a really good guy. Even if he trash talked I would still choose to view him in a positive light.

I appreciate compliments but what I really listen to and take seriously is criticism. I make mistakes. I do my best to learn from them.

This has been one of the most frustrating and saddening things I've ever gone through.

One thing that keeps me from sinking into depression over this is my track record and reputation. I've made over 60 composite cabs.I have taken back 5 for repair that were due to problems in construction.All of them were the earliest cabs. Except for Monster's I never saw them a second time. I even checked in to insure that everything was cool. I had 4 where I had to replace a defective tweeter. Greenboy insisted on using an Eminence APT80 tweeter. It's cheap. Around $20. But it's a threaded plastic horn with a 1 1/2# driver hanging on it. An accident waiting to happen. They break. I know that there are many out there that haven't but I know at least one authorized buider that has had them break. I begged Greenboy to switch it but he wouldn't. I paid shipping back from Korea to replace one damaged in shipping. Most that were returned were damaged in shipping. It got to the point where I wouldn't take an order for a cab that used it.

Ken Jung had a problem with a very early composite cab. Just a wire vibrating against something. I fixed it and it worked perfectly. I then learned that with composite cabs different rules applied. EVERY wire had to be isolated and affixed. Never had that problem again.

As far as wood cabinets I have had one of about 70 come back. Unfortunately it was from Norway! It was a simple fix.

I have had two people of all I have dealt with that just thought my work sucked. (Monster being one)

I have taken one cabinet back where it just didn't suit the buyer's needs.I refunded his money.

This is just one of those "haunted cabs" situations for me. I really did my best to try to rectify the situation. I've never been as frustrated.

His was one of my first composite cabs. As I stated---it was a learning experience. I refined and improved with every cab I made. And was determined to learn from and never make the same mistake a second time.

Here's one of the weirdest things. His cab was used to demo for local guys when it was here. Before the first one shipped. Again after repairs were made. And the last one with the "blown" driver----it was demoed an hour before I packed it to ship. I did delay in shipping then for 2 days so the guy could check it out. He loved it. The guys that tried the original cab at various times it was here loved it. That cab has generated 5 local cabinet sales. These are all top professional players. None of them witnessed a blown driver. Neither did I. Maybe we were all mistaken and it was blown. I am known for having a really good ear. I couldn't hear it. Checking for a blown driver is the first thing I do. Replacing a blown driver is an easy thing---it doesn't cost me any money. I deal with the top guys at Eminence all the time. If I called them they would ship me a replacement that day. I'd ship them the driver. They would determine whether it was damaged by material defect or abuse. Material defect---they pay. Abuse---the customer pays. No skin off my nose either way. My deliveries from Eminence are two days.

I'm not saying Monster is lying---I don't think he's that kind of guy.

The first time it was sent back I played it. I had to play it really loud to hear any problem. At a volume that no one would play in their house and wouldn't notice anything on a gig I heard a slight buzz coming from a crossover component. At the time I had just used wire ties to secure capacitors. I then used hot melt and wire ties. Never had that problem again. I also did some repairs to a few places that were minorly bashed. I had to redo the red Duratex on the whole cab. No charge.I had a guy stop over and try it He ordered one.

The next time was the Fedex fiasco. I rebuilt the entire cab. The good thing about the composites is that when you do a repair it's actually stronger than the original cab. I redid the entire crossover. I had used typical grill clamps originally. To try to make up for Monster's inconvenience I did some upgrades. I filled in the holes (with epoxy) from the original clamps. I ordered new Penn Elcom grills---much better looking than the waffle grills---and installed them with a new integral mounting system. I wanted to do everything I could to make this unpleasant experience better. I shook the cab. I tossed it in the air. I took it outside and ran it to full volume to insure that there were no problems. I had a list of locals wanting to try a Fearful 15/6. One came by, loved it, and ordered one.

I had by then improved my boxing and packing. Everything was double boxed with double thickness carboard. The eqivalent of 4 thicknesses. I make custom packing corners of 2" polyethelene foam.

Monster received it and said there were problems. I was beside myself. I said that I'd make him a new fEarless 115 at no charge. I used Okume plywood ($100 upcharge). His original cab didn't have the tweeter. I included the better tweeter and horn (Faital---I wouldn't use the APT80)
It did take too long. I was really sick from fiberglass. Also, Greenboy had spec'd a certain Faital mid. Faital had discontinued this mid (12 ohm) and replaced it with an 8 ohm mid. I begged Greenboy to redo the crossover for the over-the-counter mid. Instead, they talked Faital into bringing some of the 12 ohm drivers back into the country. It was stupid. It would have been simple to redo the crossover. I had to order directly from Faital as Speaker Hardware had none in stock. (and would likely be unable to get them in the future) Faital is great if you're buying a box of drivers. You don't want to buy singles. They throw it in the box and hope for the best. Literally. I buy a lot of drivers directly from Faital. The first 5" mid they sent had the terminals broken off. They sent a second one that had a hole in the cone. I talked to the rep complaining. He said they were unaccustomed to shipping individual drivers. The third one they sent had a small dent in the dust cap.I talked to Leland and was able to use a small needle to pop it back out. Tested it and it was fine. This took a frustrating month back and forth. Wouldn't have happened if we just switched to the 8 ohm mid.

I finished the cab and was very proud of it. Shook it, tossed it, cranked it. It sounded great. I must have missed the fact that it was blown as did the top pro that was over and tried it.

My next communication from Monster was that it sounded like crap and don't contact him unless it was for a full refund. To be honest---at this point I wasn't willing to issue a full refund. He had the cab. Had a problem. I fixed it. (after an afternoon trying to locate it). I did not hear back from him that there was a problem. So at the time I assumed it was fixed. It was a while where he communicated that the problem was back. At this point it ---in my book--changed from an originally shipped defect to warranty problem. For warranty problems typically it's fixed for free but the customer pays shipping. I paid all shipping myself, Over $400 total. I offered and built a new cab----with options beyond the first cab.

To be honest---I have no idea what was happening. Ultimatums were issued and communication shut down. It was a total nightmare for me. At this point I would have paid shipping and had the cab returned and fixed it. I was not offered that option.

Every time I shipped back to him I confirmed with objective sources that the cab functioned well. I'm not accusing Monster of anything. This is the only cab out of about 150 that has ever had problems like this. The only repair that ever came back. Any builder or repairman can diss some one else's work.

Fortunately, my reputation speaks for itself. While since I'm a one-man shop sometimes communication may have slipped---I've taken great pains to rectify that. Fortunately (or unfortunately) my orders are increasing as is my customer satisfaction.

Although this is a single isolated incident--it impacts me stronger in an emotional way then what has been almost exclusively successes. I tried my best. I think that Monster is a good guy and wish him the best.

I will not post on this topic again.
 
Wow monster, a very unfortunate situation. If I were you, I'd be upset as well. I disagree with anyone who says you've handled this thread improperly. You are posting your experiences without emotion and name-calling. I wish more TB'ers were capable of doing that. Respect.

My personal experience was very different. I had Mike build one cabinet for me (proudly listed in my sig), and it is, for me, the finest cabinet I have ever owned or played through in my nearly 30 years as a bassist. I love that cab so much I want to be buried with it. :D
 
Excellent post/response Mike.


Hmm. After reading Mike’s reply - its seems to me that anyone wanting a better Fearful type cabinet should a have Mike build it for them with the better unauthorized parts - just saying.

That discussion should be kept out of this thread imho. It leads nowhere constructive here.

As for Mike's reply: all my respects for that. Also for Monsters grown-up mentality.
I guess all is said now.
 
It could be that somewhere along the shipping chain, that there is a handling issue, and the cabs being thrown around could damage a woofer. I have had that happen, and was one of the times I owned the problem, since it was cheaper and quicker to fix than it was to ship the cab back and hope UPS would refund due to damages.
 
the cab minus the problem woofer. i wish you luck with the project. i'm impressed at your interest in trying it out. btw - a significant portion of the sales price was shipping costs (just over 25%). i wasn't trying to make money off of this.

Excellent post/response Mike.


Hmm. After reading Mike’s reply - its seems to me that anyone wanting a better Fearful type cabinet should a have Mike build it for them with the better unauthorized parts - just saying.


I'm sure Mike would agree, that this would no longer be a fEARful or any other of the Green lines without Dave's redesigning of the necessary aspects.
 
A most unfortunate situation.

A 100% refund is likely the best outcome.

1. Without a doubt, the issue is closed. Sometimes there is a 'ghost in the machine' type scenario and unfortunately business owners have to just swallow it in order to maintain 100% customer satisfaction.

2. Potential future customers would know that IF they run into a problem like this (heaven forbid) with Mike, a 100% refund would raise the bar of customer satisfaction to a point that they can rest assured that they wont be stuck with a faulty product and out alot of money.

Perhaps it can just be chalked up to the cost of doing business? I know for a certainty that excellent customer service always make the choice easy when it comes to parting with my money.
 
Personally i see a problem when someone complains to a large public group of potential customers about a business who has never given up trying to resolve a seemingly two sided issue. You gave up... not mike. Cant complain about mike in that case as a businessman


I did give up. After almost a year of issues, rebuilds, lack of communication, blown promised delivery dates. I can't prove that Mike wasn't giving me the run-around, but it can certainly seem that he might have been (though I don't know why).
 
A most unfortunate situation.

A 100% refund is likely the best outcome.

1. Without a doubt, the issue is closed. Sometimes there is a 'ghost in the machine' type scenario and unfortunately business owners have to just swallow it in order to maintain 100% customer satisfaction.

2. Potential future customers would know that IF they run into a problem like this (heaven forbid) with Mike, a 100% refund would raise the bar of customer satisfaction to a point that they can rest assured that they wont be stuck with a faulty product and out alot of money.

Perhaps it can just be chalked up to the cost of doing business? I know for a certainty that excellent customer service always make the choice easy when it comes to parting with my money.

I used to give a 48 hour trial period with full refund when I sold something in the classifieds. I stopped doing that quickly because people were using it to try out something they couldn't get locally. If you're building a bunch of the exact same cabs a 100% refund is possible, but with custom orders it gets tricky. You get tire kickers that will buy for one gig. Still remember a band in college that ordered Carvin guitars for their big battle of the bands and sent them back right after the gig.
 
Not sure how the APT80 argument applies, since they aren't spec'd in either the 15/6/1 or the F115. Not sure how that confusion started.

Condolences to Mike and Monster for this unfortunate situation
 
You kids place nice, ok? thanks.

Thank you Chef. My thinking out loud comment was just based on Mike’s comment about using better components.

I had 4 where I had to replace a defective tweeter. Greenboy insisted on using an Eminence APT80 tweeter. It's cheap. Around $20. But it's a threaded plastic horn with a 1 1/2# driver hanging on it. An accident waiting to happen. They break. I know that there are many out there that haven't but I know at least one authorized buider that has had them break. I begged Greenboy to switch it but he wouldn't.

Also, Greenboy had spec'd a certain Faital mid. Faital had discontinued this mid (12 ohm) and replaced it with an 8 ohm mid. I begged Greenboy to redo the crossover for the over-the-counter mid. Instead, they talked Faital into bringing some of the 12 ohm drivers back into the country. It was stupid. It would have been simple to redo the crossover.

Anyway, as vbchaos said - maybe this is best left for another thread.

Cheers,
Joe
 
Well this is not as viral as last years Jimmy Bass fiasco but its moving at a snail pace in comparison?I am a owner of two of Mike,s composite TC builds one being Ken Jung TC115 and it is still pumping it out there,My other is one of Mike,s TC212 cabs and while it did take longer than I wanted it turned out great.One of the reasons it taking longer was that it was a new creation of Dukes and was still in the building and confirmation stage of it and Duke was still determining what components would work best with it.In the long run the wait was well worth it.I have nothing but good to report about Mike or Duke also Monster has nothing he should e ashamed about by reporting his bad experience with his build.We have to remember that anything can happen once the cab leaves the builder Im sure we have all seen videos of how UPS and Fedex handle and deliver our packages to us !!!
 
I had said I wouldn't comment any more but I'd like to end my comments with one thing. My FAVORITE thing about Talkbass is the many wonderful friendships I've developed. I used to think that music was the most important thing in my life. As I've grown older I realize it's the relationships we have with other human beings.

While I haven't met most of my customers in person, I consider them friends. When someone likes my cabinets of course my ego is fed but more importantly I'm happy about the possibiity that I could have added just a wee bit of joy to someone's life.

I'll tell you guys---Monster is one of my personal heroes. What he has overcome and his attitude toward life are truly inspirational.

My biggest sadness over this is in hurting a relationship that while being maybe small and incidental in the bigger scheme of things actually means something.

Sorry about my melodrama.
 
Here is where you went wrong. You should have sent the cab back immediately after you heard the buzzing

you had the cab for a year and did not complain about it. Why complain about it now?


Because it was tolerable though annoying. I fully expected to pay for the repair needed when it discussed a year later. Mike and I talked it through and figured it would be a quick and easy repair. Where things went wrong was the repair work. Each time if got to Mike he took longed than he told me he would and was poor about communicating delays, and each time it came back from being repaired it got worse. I have no issue with the first year of this. I'm bringing it up now because it is finally "done" in my eyes. Until now, Mike and I had been working on solutions and I wax holding commentary until resolution was achieved. Mike and I now need to call out adventure together "done."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.