• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

NAD: Gallien-Krueger (GK) Gain Staging

groovaholic

groovaholic

Protect your hearing. Protect your hands.
Supporting Member
Sep 19, 2004
5,357
9,926
Mount Prospect, IL
#1
I've owned a couple GK 1001RB-II's and I've struggled with the amp; I love the weight, features, form-factor, reliability, power...and sometimes I really liked the tone.

But at times the amps felt cold and brittle to me.

Recently, I found the following post by @IPYF:
"..I read on another thread in TB the other day that most GK amps are designed to be run with the master volume on full.
I nearly burst out in belly laughs at what I perceived to be complete and unadulterated codswallop.
This idiot poster suggested that you should set the master to 100% and dial in input gain until you got the right volume.
Now since I've been playing bass for over a decade I had a quiet chuckle and clucked over the stupidity of this backward individual who clearly didn't know the first thing about anything and went on with my business.

So the other night I had a gig in this horrible room... I thought it would be funny to turn up to maximum for the first time ever and make everything that little bit worse...all of a sudden the amp just turned into a fire breathing monster with tone for days.

I'd always assumed that I had a great GK tone but this was something completely different. I've had the master volume at maximum every gig since and it's just 110% superior to my previous sound.

So as the first post in the GK club I'd like to apologise for playing GK for 2 years without figuring out how to actually use the amp, and for being arrogant..."​

This post got my attention because I absolutely could have written that first part!

Like him, the GK advice on how to set volume levels disagreed with everything I knew about gain staging, and I had heard a bit more background noise when I tested the amp with the woofer amp volume up all the way.

But I'd never really PLAYED the amp like that, which made me feel like I might have left something important uncovered.

This Friday, I traded an amp for another GK -- a very clean 700RB-II (which I'd also read might be a bit easier to "warm up" than the 1001RB)

Got the amp home and tried it out set with the woofer north of 50% and I'm 100% sold on this approach -- it makes a HUGE difference in the sound and response of this amp.

Then it occurred to me; it simplifies things too -- rather than mess with your boost, tweeter, and woofer knobs all the time, you just set them for the blend and tonality you like, and control your stage volume with the input gain.

It's different than what I'm used to, but it's undeniably better than what I was doing before.

And for the first time in YEARS I'm completely satisfied with an amp.

 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyP-, mbelue, Mystic Michael and 3 others
#2
Here's a blast from the past. I don't own the GK anymore because I no longer require a loud amplifier, and it was part of a very heavy rig that I dispensed with when I moved into an upstairs unit. Regardless I still reckon that night I cranked that 1001 to the rafters on a whim was one of my finest gig moments. If I ever got out on the road again with another serious heavy band (unlikely but not impossible) I'd probably go looking for another RB series head and you better believe I'd run the volume on 100%
 
#3
maybe this is the thread you're referencing:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/gk-...r-volume-should-be-set-at-12-3-oclock.360565/

while ^^that says the owners manual states gain should be set between 12-3 oclock for maximum clarity, it never does say that in verbiage that I can find. rather, the "suggested settings" diagrams show the master to be set at that range. the manual never mentions setting it all the way open; that I can find.

no where did I see it was recommended by GK to have the master all open.
 
Last edited:
#4
@groovaholic, this is the exact same learning curve I went through with an 800rb a couple years ago. Initially it's like petting a cat the wrong way - but once the master is dimed the amp starts purring (or rather, growling). Quite ferociously as you've discovered.

Enjoy, mate.

Raz
 
#5
Except for my little practice amp, my MB210 is my first GK. As soon as I got it home I started playing around with the gain and MV. Within a few minutes I realized that the master was a wasted control, turn it to max and forget it. Anything else sound anemic.
 
#6
The manual mentions starting with the woofer volume at 12:00; other threads recommend running it at 100%.

I found that I have plenty of volume (and less background noise) with the woofer at 12:00 and boost around 2:00-3:00.

Input gain barely gets cracked open.

What was interesting to me was how dramatically the harmonic structure changed and the feel of the amp was more lively.

Previously, I'd gotten that kind of difference (on other amps) by switching from the active to the passive input or running the gain control just shy of audible clipping.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mystic Michael
#7
It's not really counter-intuitive thinking that the gain staging in a GK would be different than another head. I mean, after all, the EQ path is entirely reversed. I've not tried the "dime the master" yet on my BL600, but I run my master at about 1-3:00 with my boost at noon, and then run up my channel volume accordingly, and it does sound pretty huge.
 
#8
All the good stuff on the 1001rb (and 700rb) happens in the power amp, so it makes sense to make that work and adjust the volume with the preamp. I'm not sure if it says so in the manual, but I've always done it this way. Master usually at around 75%, no boost, and as much volume as the cab or my bandmates can handle. They sound fantastic when pushed, but they're too damn loud :laugh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: cfsporn
#10
"Input and Master Volume Settings:
Set the master to 12 o’clock then gradually increase
the preamp volume control to a comfortable listening
level. If you hear distortion at low volume settings,
try pressing in the -14dB pad. If it’s still distorted,
try turning the volume down on your bass."

This is from page 5 of the manual from my MB150 III. I actually have the preamp volume around 2:00 and the master around 10:00 - 11:00 with the ext. cab hooked up. This is pretty loud and sounds pleasant to my ears even playing with a drummer. (passive P-bass)
 
#11
On the 800rb I had and when toying with the two 400rb's I just acquired the clearest sounds were only obtained when running the masters wide open and keeping boost to a minimum (if I used it at all) - volume was adjusted using the input gain (for lack of a better term) but I don't consider it a normal gain like on the TE I had.

The 10db pads on the older ones were a tone-suck switch - they took out too much clarity. The one on the Mark III is good though, looking forward to "learning" the updated preamp.

Raz
 
#13
I use either 2 Neo 112's or two Neo 212's; depending. Sometimes 112 over 212....
I don't play very hard with my right hand, but yessir, that can get pretty loud. It's it's too much, I can turn down.
 
#16
Here are the settings I was using at rehearsal today:
ImageUploadedByTalkBass1419138091.292535.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: lizardking837 and TonyP-
#20
Not too far apart: the higher input gain is counterbalanced by the lower Boost setting.

My EQ is a work in progress; it was my first full band outing with my 4x10s since I did the ".5 alignment" mod on them.

I got a TON of clarity and intelligibility out of the amp, but my high mid control was up a bit to compensate for the decreased output above 450 Hz.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TonyP-

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back