Nashville notation Q

[Maxra]

I have a rookie question on the Nashville numbering system. Having dealt with the dots and tabs in the past, I'm now learning the Nashville notation system (N.N. onwards) - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 or I II III IV V VI VII. I'm going through a folk tune book marking up the chords in N.N., so a simple chord progression in the key of G Major (key sig. one sharp) could be e.g.

Chords: GMaj / CMaj / D7 / GMaj
N.N.: I IV V I

I get that, but the next tune has the same key sig. of G written on the page (so the notes are from the G Major scale). However the tune resolves to E, and the first four bars of chords are:
Em / C / G / D etc., resolving to Em, so I think the key signature's G but the tune's in Em?

So, how would you write those four chords on the page in N.N. - would you work out the N.N. chord notation to the key signature of G, or the actual sounding key of Em (assuming an instrument that sounds at written pitch)?

Thanks, Max

 

[jthisdell]

Emin is of course the relative minor of Gmaj so the notes are the same. To me it would be more clear to say it is in Emin and note it that way but Gmaj is such a popular key that many are going to think the song is in Gmaj and note it that way. If it starts and resolves in Emin then in my mind the song is in Emin.

 

[brianrost]

The key of E natural minor uses the same key signature on the staff as the key of G major...one sharp. I would use the numbers for E minor.

The chords are exactly the same as G major:

Emin (E G B)
F#dim (F# A C)
G (G B D)
Am (A C E)
Bm (B D F#)
C (C E G)
D (D F# A)

You’re unlikely to find the harmonic and melodic minor scales used in folk music.

 

[SteveCS]

The key of E natural minor uses the same key signature on the staff as the key of G major...one sharp. I would use the numbers for E minor.

The chords are exactly the same as G major:

Emin (E G B)
F#dim (F# A C)
G (G B D)
Am (A C E)
Bm (B D F#)
C (C E G)
D (D F# A)

You’re unlikely to find the harmonic and melodic minor scales used in folk music.

I'm not so sure. The V chord is often x7, not xm7 or x-7. X7 is harmonic minor.

The question is seems more "Is the tonic correctly notated as i (as compared to I), or vi?" I do use roman ananysis but I don't use NN, which is superficially similar but not the same.

 

[pmatz2]

“the official” Nashville number system only uses major keys so you should right it all out in G so em would be 6-. And Nashville number system doesn’t use Roman numerals.

Here are a few overviews
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/the-nashville-number-system-demystified/

Everything You Need to Know About the Nashville Number System

It’s a secret language that will help you become a better musician—even if you live outside of Music City.

www.premierguitar.com

Curious:
Are you creating these charts for yourself or are you planning to share with others as a Nashville numbers chart?

 

[arbor]

My favorite aspect of NNS charts is the focus on detailing the structure of a song. Every measure is accounted for.

Agree with what folks said, NNS pretends every song is in a major key, so you see a lot of 6- chords. If a song feels minor, like you’re describing, then you’ll find that the V or V7 of the becomes a 3-major (expressed with a triangle for major, or with a superscript 7 if it’s dominant), which is an exception to a 3 chord usually being minor.

This was the one aspect of NNS that took some getting used to for me, coming from a classical “functional analysis” numbering paradigm.

I do much prefer Arabic numerals when writing and reading charts.

If you are making charts for sharing with others, I’d encourage you to check out www.JotChord.com (on a desktop browser). It’s a quick way to just type numbers and create a beautifully formatted PDF.

 

[brianrost]

I'm not so sure. The V chord is often x7, not xm7 or x-7. X7 is harmonic minor.

I didn’t write the chords are the same. They can’t be because of the changes in the sixth and seventh degrees. Then there’s the Dorian mode to consider which would have a key signature of two sharps (D major).

Nashville numbers don’t always specify 7ths or other extensions, we’re talking country music here. Now if the numbers clearly denoted i, IV, V7 then it would imply melodic minor and the soloists should get all jazzy

In blues, some minor key songs are described as “only the one chord is minor”, which implies melodic minor. When it’s natural minor, the flat sixth major chord may be played on the turnaround. Many players describe that as a “five-sharp five turnaround”.

Maybe other people have had different experinces but when I’m handed number charts for non-jazz tunes, I seldom see explicit extensions. For instance, I have never had a number chart handed to me for a blues tune that showed I7, IV7, V7. If it’s blues, there is no single scale or key signature that contains those three chords.

My favorite aspect of NNS charts is the focus on detailing the structure of a song. Every measure is accounted for.

I just was learning a song off a lyric sheet that the BL gave me. Lyric sheets don’t give any sense of the structure…no bar lines, no rhythmic information. After trying to read it down during a rehearsal, I went home and decoded the chords based on scale degrees. Then it immediately made sense to me.

 

[J Wilson]

I have a rookie question on the Nashville numbering system. Having dealt with the dots and tabs in the past, I'm now learning the Nashville notation system (N.N. onwards) - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 or I II III IV V VI VII. I'm going through a folk tune book marking up the chords in N.N., so a simple chord progression in the key of G Major (key sig. one sharp) could be e.g.

Chords: GMaj / CMaj / D7 / GMaj
N.N.: I IV V I

I get that, but the next tune has the same key sig. of G written on the page (so the notes are from the G Major scale). However the tune resolves to E, and the first four bars of chords are:
Em / C / G / D etc., resolving to Em, so I think the key signature's G but the tune's in Em?

So, how would you write those four chords on the page in N.N. - would you work out the N.N. chord notation to the key signature of G, or the actual sounding key of Em (assuming an instrument that sounds at written pitch)?

Thanks, Max

I've played lots of number charts ( and I do live in NashVegas) and to me, a chord chart for a song in G major going to E minor in the course of the changes we'd write as a 6 minor.

You tend to write a these things to just enough complexity to play something accurately. And for me, the best thing is that it demolishes your sense of playing in familiar or favorite keys. Especially in five string bass where I gain some maneuvering room over a four, you simply tell me what key the '1' is, and we're off to the races.

 

[arbor]

I just was learning a song off a lyric sheet that the BL gave me. Lyric sheets don’t give any sense of the structure…no bar lines, no rhythmic information

My #1 complaint about “ChordPro” style charts that are all over the interwebs. They work for guys/gals with a guitar who already have the song in their ears. As a rhythm section player, I need to know exactly where the chord changes are so I can help signal them.

 

[Maxra]

Thanks guys, that's great. My eventual aim is to be able to busk UK/Irish/Eurofolk tunes on bass, because I know '00s of them on fiddle by ear and on the dots. The Nashville numbering comes in 'cos these tunes can often be played in a (small) range of keys like G D C and F depending on what key squeezebox (or e.g. bagpipe or bombarde) the perpetrator has in their hand. I'd like to learn to identify then 'earball' the relatively limited range of chords they use and busk them when I hear them. They also use some modes, which I guess is why they quite often don't feature major or minor type chords where you expect them, and why some accompanists play lots of 5 chords or suspended chords with no 3rds. Now to work...

 

[brianrost]

Maxra,

I played in a celtic band with a piper who had D and G field pipes. So everything was in D, G, their relative minors Bm, Em or the Dorian modes Em, Am.

I also played Cajun music with diatonic button boxes and again the keys were restricted to which boxes that the accordion player brought.

Because of the limits of diatonic instruments, the chords were mostly triads with a dom7 or sus here and there.

 

[fretlessman71]

When I make NNS charts, I assume that the chord is diatonic, so if I see a 6 chord, it's already minor, and doesn't need a hyphen. Does anyone else do it this way?

 

[Leo Smith]

When I make NNS charts, I assume that the chord is diatonic, so if I see a 6 chord, it's already minor, and doesn't need a hyphen. Does anyone else do it this way?

I've always presumed the opposite, that every chord is considered a major triad unless otherwise modified.

 

[fretlessman71]

I've always presumed the opposite, that every chord is considered a major triad unless otherwise modified.

The method that works for you is the correct method!

 

[longfinger]

Em / C / G / D

is vi / IV / I / V
or 6- / 4 / 1 / 5

It is not in a traditional Em key chord progression, as it does not have a B major chord in it, nor at least D dim. No leading tone D#, means no E minor key.

But it's not the 19th century anymore, music evolves.

Still that progression is the same old I - V - vi - IV , just starting it on the vi. One of the permutation of this extremely common chord progression.

So : 6- / 4 / 1 / 5


However, for songs that are actually in a true minor key, like say "Besame Mucho", I would put the minor as 1-. Totally silly to me to call the tonic minor chord a 6- for a 1 major that never happens in the song.

That's not official NNS, but I don't care about that.