- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
I haven't seen too many reviews of the Bach T-Bird bass on here, but if there are, please forgive me for being redundant.
Mine arrived from the Czech Republic last wednesday, so i thought that i'd post a thread about my feelings on this instrument for those that are considering purchasing one.
Being that I loved the mid 60s Gibson non-reverse T-Bird basses back in the day, I ordered a Bach Thunderbird directly from the manufacturer, B&CH Music the in Czech Republic (Invalid Link Removed), since they are the only ones that Im aware of that currently produce a bass like this. I saw that a few people had them on the web and they looked fairly decent from the pictures that Id seen, and although Epiphone offered a non-reverse a few years back, it had a bolt-on neck, and came with a p bass pickup, and a jazz bass pickup in the bridge position. This bass is all mahogany, with a set neck, and has the more modern 3.5 x 1.5 t-bird pickups, in the original locations.
The only way that you can buy one from them is with a direct bank wire-transfer, which is kind of a hassle, plus the fact that your bank will charge you anywhere from $35-45 to make the transaction. I ordered the model BACH BTH-2 TRD which has a price of 320.75 +110.42 shipping (these figures are in euros), which equates today to about $536 dollars US. So, after making the transfer it ended up costing me $536+$45 ( $581). When I ordered it, I specifically asked for the case to be shipped with it, since its way too long of a bass for any other bass case or gig bag to fit it into, and the website stated case for this model in our offer. I came to find out later, that their price DOES NOT include a case, and that its a matter of poor English on the manufacturers part. When it arrived approximately 2 weeks later, I also had to pay an additional $50 in extra shipping fees, taxes and duty fees, so now my total for the bass, without a case, was up to $631.00!
My Review:
Upon opening the box, I looked it over, and put it on my digital scale, just to see what this super-long bass weighed. Surprisingly, it came in at a fairly light 9 lbs 1.3 oz. The poly finish is okay, but has quite a few waves in it from it not being blocked very well before they rubbed it out, so I would give its finish a C. The first thing that I did was look down the neck to make sure that it was straight. It had a large front bow, so I took out the included allen wrench and adjusted it. I was able to get it basically straight, with a few small dips here and there, but nothing that would effect its action in a negative way. The black plastic nut was poorly fitted, being a bit too small (not wide enough) and biased way too much to the bass side, so I immediately made a new one out of white Corian. The frets were beveled in a bit too much at the edges for my taste, giving a somewhat narrower playing area, but at least they were pretty level, and all of them securely pressed into the rosewood fingerboard. Since I ordered the two pickup version (which I now regret) I looked at the routing for it which was routed a bit too large for the bridge pickup. The pictures on the website show a nicely fitted route for it, but mine has 3/16ths extra routing in front and behind it, so Ill probably make a chrome bezel for it, since the originals had one anyway. Since I intend to replace the pickups, I now wish I would have just ordered the single pickup version and then routed the bridge pickup myself.
After making adjustments to the neck, nut and action, I played it acoustically (without plugging it in). Thats when I found out that all four of the machine heads rattled horribly, since the clover leaf is actually a separate piece from the worm drive. I removed each one, took them apart, and placed the clover leaf/worm shaft in a vise and pressed them together tighter which alleviated the rattle for now. These type of basses have always had quite a bit of neck dive, I decided that Im going to install some new Gotoh res-o-lite vintage reverse tuners, which have the appearance of the original Klusons that Gibson used, but save al ¼ lb at the headstock end (which is where these basses really need it). They tune much smoother, have a 28:1 ratio, adjustable tension, and all with NO rattles (plus the fact that I already have some in my inventory ;-).
Next, I looked at the pots and jack. In my opinion, you couldnt possibly find smaller and cheaper pots than these, and the jack was no picnic either. I am going to replace them with CTS pots and a new Switchcraft jack. I also noticed that the pot for the bridge pickup's volume control wasn't ever grounded, but the funny thing is, it worked properly. The bass is wired in the same manner as a Fender Jazz bass, with a volume control for each pickup and a master tone control. The pots measured 450K each.
Okay, time to plug her in while shes still stock. The amp that I used is an Avalon VT737SP channel strip, into a Crown xti2000 poweramp, using an Accugroove Whappo Jr. cabinet. My first impression is that the neck pickup sounds okay, but the bridge one leaves a bit to be desired. When using both, the pickups dont have much highs or lows, and are kind of lifeless, so Im going to be installing a set of Seymour Duncan SSB4s in it this coming week (I just ordered them today). The factory roundwound strings appear to be stainless steel, but the G string has been deader than the other three strings since I opened the box, so Ill be installing a new set of Daddario stainless steel ones when they get here. By the way, although the pickups look like they have metal covers in the pics, the pickup covers are actually made of chromed textured plastic. On their website, they are listed as alnico humbuckers, and I measured them to have a DC resistance reading of 4.52K each. They are quiet (no hum) but dont have all that much output. In my opinion, they are not bad, but not great either.
To solve the neck dive issue when using a strap, I simply relocated the upper bout strap button to the necks heel area. The original Gibson non-reverse T-Bird also had a tummy cut on the back, and this particular version of this bass doesnt, so even though with the balance issue being mostly resolved, the bass leans forward, and away from you when you play it. I found that very uncomfortable, so yesterday, I decided to cut a bevel into the back of the body (tummy cut), using pictures that I found on the web of a vintage non-reverse to approximate its size, location and shape. Im also going to make a new pickguard for it, since the Philips head screws that they used to mount it are so large and look kinda out of place to me.
Here's a pic of the tummy cut just before i painted the exposed area:
and here's a pic of the back with the 'tummy cut' after i reshot the area with trans red lacquer, sealed it with catalyzed poly and re-buffed it:
here's a pic of the Gotoh Res-o-lite tuners that i installed installed:
After replacing the machine heads and cutting the 'tummy cut', the bass now weighs 8lbs 9oz (one ounce over 8 1/2 lbs), and it is much more comfortable to play. To me, it's amazing how that 1/2 lb makes it feel so much lighter, and being better balanced definitely doesn't hurt.
Summary:
In my opinion, the neck, body, bridge and tailpiece on this bass is actually pretty nice, and with a new nut, tummy cut, and strap button relocation, it has the potential for a very good bass, especially if you invest a bit more money into it, and possibly replace the pickups.
Now, dont get me wrong, I may sound somewhat critical to some people, but also possibly be too forgiving, to others. I didnt expect perfection, but I did expect a properly cut nut, cleanly routed bridge pickup, and machine heads that didnt rattle when you played it, especially considering its price without a case of $431.75 (US), before taxes, bank fees, shipping and duty fees that add another $200 to that, just to get it here in the states. I think that most Chinese, Korean and even some Indian made basses are made as well, or better than this instrument, especially at this price point.
After several attempts, the instrument maker, Roman Bach (who I found to be very polite) did return my emails after a few days, concerning these issues and offered me a refund for the purchase, however, if I did return it, I would be losing my bank fees ($45), duty fees ($50) and have to pay the shipping back to him (about $143), so I decided to keep it, and make it into something that I could use, rather than be out the $250.00, and end up with nothing (live and learn, I guess).
Eventually, if I get it to sound the way that I want it to with the new pickups, Ill probably strip the finish entirely, and shoot it with an Ivory nitro finish, but thats down the road, and thats only if I love its sound with the new pickups. For now, I think its appearance is fine, and Im more concerned at getting some real tone out of it at this point.
I hope that this info is helpful for anyone that is considering purchasing one of these basses. At first, I was very disppointed with it, but now, after a few mods/ improvements, I'm actually starting dig this bass and I can't wait for the new strings and pickups to arrive.
sorry for the extremely lengthy post, but i thought some of you might be interested in one of these.
a little more info, and a few more pics of it, can be found on my website here: http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/BACH-T-Bird.html
regards,
Mine arrived from the Czech Republic last wednesday, so i thought that i'd post a thread about my feelings on this instrument for those that are considering purchasing one.
Being that I loved the mid 60s Gibson non-reverse T-Bird basses back in the day, I ordered a Bach Thunderbird directly from the manufacturer, B&CH Music the in Czech Republic (Invalid Link Removed), since they are the only ones that Im aware of that currently produce a bass like this. I saw that a few people had them on the web and they looked fairly decent from the pictures that Id seen, and although Epiphone offered a non-reverse a few years back, it had a bolt-on neck, and came with a p bass pickup, and a jazz bass pickup in the bridge position. This bass is all mahogany, with a set neck, and has the more modern 3.5 x 1.5 t-bird pickups, in the original locations.
The only way that you can buy one from them is with a direct bank wire-transfer, which is kind of a hassle, plus the fact that your bank will charge you anywhere from $35-45 to make the transaction. I ordered the model BACH BTH-2 TRD which has a price of 320.75 +110.42 shipping (these figures are in euros), which equates today to about $536 dollars US. So, after making the transfer it ended up costing me $536+$45 ( $581). When I ordered it, I specifically asked for the case to be shipped with it, since its way too long of a bass for any other bass case or gig bag to fit it into, and the website stated case for this model in our offer. I came to find out later, that their price DOES NOT include a case, and that its a matter of poor English on the manufacturers part. When it arrived approximately 2 weeks later, I also had to pay an additional $50 in extra shipping fees, taxes and duty fees, so now my total for the bass, without a case, was up to $631.00!
My Review:
Upon opening the box, I looked it over, and put it on my digital scale, just to see what this super-long bass weighed. Surprisingly, it came in at a fairly light 9 lbs 1.3 oz. The poly finish is okay, but has quite a few waves in it from it not being blocked very well before they rubbed it out, so I would give its finish a C. The first thing that I did was look down the neck to make sure that it was straight. It had a large front bow, so I took out the included allen wrench and adjusted it. I was able to get it basically straight, with a few small dips here and there, but nothing that would effect its action in a negative way. The black plastic nut was poorly fitted, being a bit too small (not wide enough) and biased way too much to the bass side, so I immediately made a new one out of white Corian. The frets were beveled in a bit too much at the edges for my taste, giving a somewhat narrower playing area, but at least they were pretty level, and all of them securely pressed into the rosewood fingerboard. Since I ordered the two pickup version (which I now regret) I looked at the routing for it which was routed a bit too large for the bridge pickup. The pictures on the website show a nicely fitted route for it, but mine has 3/16ths extra routing in front and behind it, so Ill probably make a chrome bezel for it, since the originals had one anyway. Since I intend to replace the pickups, I now wish I would have just ordered the single pickup version and then routed the bridge pickup myself.
After making adjustments to the neck, nut and action, I played it acoustically (without plugging it in). Thats when I found out that all four of the machine heads rattled horribly, since the clover leaf is actually a separate piece from the worm drive. I removed each one, took them apart, and placed the clover leaf/worm shaft in a vise and pressed them together tighter which alleviated the rattle for now. These type of basses have always had quite a bit of neck dive, I decided that Im going to install some new Gotoh res-o-lite vintage reverse tuners, which have the appearance of the original Klusons that Gibson used, but save al ¼ lb at the headstock end (which is where these basses really need it). They tune much smoother, have a 28:1 ratio, adjustable tension, and all with NO rattles (plus the fact that I already have some in my inventory ;-).
Next, I looked at the pots and jack. In my opinion, you couldnt possibly find smaller and cheaper pots than these, and the jack was no picnic either. I am going to replace them with CTS pots and a new Switchcraft jack. I also noticed that the pot for the bridge pickup's volume control wasn't ever grounded, but the funny thing is, it worked properly. The bass is wired in the same manner as a Fender Jazz bass, with a volume control for each pickup and a master tone control. The pots measured 450K each.
Okay, time to plug her in while shes still stock. The amp that I used is an Avalon VT737SP channel strip, into a Crown xti2000 poweramp, using an Accugroove Whappo Jr. cabinet. My first impression is that the neck pickup sounds okay, but the bridge one leaves a bit to be desired. When using both, the pickups dont have much highs or lows, and are kind of lifeless, so Im going to be installing a set of Seymour Duncan SSB4s in it this coming week (I just ordered them today). The factory roundwound strings appear to be stainless steel, but the G string has been deader than the other three strings since I opened the box, so Ill be installing a new set of Daddario stainless steel ones when they get here. By the way, although the pickups look like they have metal covers in the pics, the pickup covers are actually made of chromed textured plastic. On their website, they are listed as alnico humbuckers, and I measured them to have a DC resistance reading of 4.52K each. They are quiet (no hum) but dont have all that much output. In my opinion, they are not bad, but not great either.
To solve the neck dive issue when using a strap, I simply relocated the upper bout strap button to the necks heel area. The original Gibson non-reverse T-Bird also had a tummy cut on the back, and this particular version of this bass doesnt, so even though with the balance issue being mostly resolved, the bass leans forward, and away from you when you play it. I found that very uncomfortable, so yesterday, I decided to cut a bevel into the back of the body (tummy cut), using pictures that I found on the web of a vintage non-reverse to approximate its size, location and shape. Im also going to make a new pickguard for it, since the Philips head screws that they used to mount it are so large and look kinda out of place to me.
Here's a pic of the tummy cut just before i painted the exposed area:
and here's a pic of the back with the 'tummy cut' after i reshot the area with trans red lacquer, sealed it with catalyzed poly and re-buffed it:
here's a pic of the Gotoh Res-o-lite tuners that i installed installed:
After replacing the machine heads and cutting the 'tummy cut', the bass now weighs 8lbs 9oz (one ounce over 8 1/2 lbs), and it is much more comfortable to play. To me, it's amazing how that 1/2 lb makes it feel so much lighter, and being better balanced definitely doesn't hurt.
Summary:
In my opinion, the neck, body, bridge and tailpiece on this bass is actually pretty nice, and with a new nut, tummy cut, and strap button relocation, it has the potential for a very good bass, especially if you invest a bit more money into it, and possibly replace the pickups.
Now, dont get me wrong, I may sound somewhat critical to some people, but also possibly be too forgiving, to others. I didnt expect perfection, but I did expect a properly cut nut, cleanly routed bridge pickup, and machine heads that didnt rattle when you played it, especially considering its price without a case of $431.75 (US), before taxes, bank fees, shipping and duty fees that add another $200 to that, just to get it here in the states. I think that most Chinese, Korean and even some Indian made basses are made as well, or better than this instrument, especially at this price point.
After several attempts, the instrument maker, Roman Bach (who I found to be very polite) did return my emails after a few days, concerning these issues and offered me a refund for the purchase, however, if I did return it, I would be losing my bank fees ($45), duty fees ($50) and have to pay the shipping back to him (about $143), so I decided to keep it, and make it into something that I could use, rather than be out the $250.00, and end up with nothing (live and learn, I guess).
Eventually, if I get it to sound the way that I want it to with the new pickups, Ill probably strip the finish entirely, and shoot it with an Ivory nitro finish, but thats down the road, and thats only if I love its sound with the new pickups. For now, I think its appearance is fine, and Im more concerned at getting some real tone out of it at this point.
I hope that this info is helpful for anyone that is considering purchasing one of these basses. At first, I was very disppointed with it, but now, after a few mods/ improvements, I'm actually starting dig this bass and I can't wait for the new strings and pickups to arrive.
sorry for the extremely lengthy post, but i thought some of you might be interested in one of these.
a little more info, and a few more pics of it, can be found on my website here: http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/BACH-T-Bird.html
regards,
