Wow, shocked Dan would ever let a instrument ship like that. That's just wrong.
Cool looking bass, would love to play one.
Cool looking bass, would love to play one.
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NBD: Dan Lakin JO
- Thread starter ModuMan
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I don't live in Minnesota, but I have never heard of any Lakland selling for $250-350. They actually have pretty good resale generally.
I agree that resale isn't going to be stellar on Lakins, but they won't be selling for $250-350 any time soon, which is what most MIM Fenders sell for.
I think they do. And having been around the MI industry for a while I have a pretty good idea of what Dan might pay for the builds; he's entitled to make a profit.
I also think however, w/out opening a worm-can- We MIGHT all be a little more aware of the importance of buying US when we can- even tho it's a global economy, PC's smart-phones, Kias etc etc.
I rep a old-line family owned USA-made MI product- I compete all the time with offshore cookie-cutter mass factory-produced equivalent types of product.
My Company employs 25 skilled workers who craft the product, many have been there for years.
I work hard for myself, and take great pleasure in my commissions; also the fact that those workers might get some needed OT, or the shop could hire another 2-3 peeps.
Not wanting to open the worm-can; just stating something that I feel.
As Clinton said- "It's the Economy - - - - - -!"
Oh, indeed. Vote with your dollars. National pride, etc...etc...I'm not discounting any of it.
I just don't buy the notion or implication that no one but US workers are skilled enough to build a stinkin bass.
Everyone deserves the opportunity to hash out a living. I am an American. I buy local. I rarely support chains. I buy lots of items to support US manufacture. But I gotta say, that Japanese bass in my avatar, and my new Subaru kick ass.
I just don't buy the notion or implication that no one but US workers are skilled enough to build a stinkin bass.
Everyone deserves the opportunity to hash out a living. I am an American. I buy local. I rarely support chains. I buy lots of items to support US manufacture. But I gotta say, that Japanese bass in my avatar, and my new Subaru kick ass.
They may have pride in their product, they may appreciate their jobs, but frankly I don't care as much about them as I do my fellow Americans. Many of my neighbors and other fellow Americans also have pride, great skills, and would really appreciate a job right now - which they may have lost and/or can't find in part because of the very phenomenon we're discussing right now. I care about them first - I'm old school that way.
And I guess the real clincher here is that we're not talking about a new, innovative model that's different and not available anywhere else, etc. They're J and P basses. Designed half a century ago, in Fullerton, CA, by Leo.
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We share much the same gripe.
The label on the back headstock still cracks me up.
He did not design or engineer a single thing on this bass save for the headstock shape and the decal.
He spec'd it out, sure, but stop playing the "engineered" card. It's a joke.
- Aug 21, 2003
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DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
I didn't think we were really going back and forth but if you insist.
I am obviously not a professional so I don't gig as often as you do, but my Fender has at least a hundred gigs on it and saw my teenage years.
My Carvin has 30-ish gigs on it and still looks dead mint.
Some people just take better care of their stuff. I know guys who have guitars look worse than mine in two weeks that never gig. None of my basses has scuffing as bad as the OPs (aside from my Jaco relic but that is not the same thing.) My cases do look terrible from banging into things, but I don't care about my cases that is what they are supposed to do.
I also think to compare damage you have done to your own instruments to damage you received on a brand new item is pointless, as it is an apples to oranges comparison. I have no problem buying slightly scuffed basses, I have a big issue with paying full price for them. It's nuts to think somebody should be expected to deal with it at any price point let alone at a premium one.
Truly! I own (6) ! Top-End Japanese built basses I love them, And my 2004 Subaru WRX Sportwagon is the BEST and baddest car I have ever owned.
It truly IS a global economy. I get it.
But I still think the US-built basses are a better instrument than the Korean or Indonesian, or Chinese counterparts.
+1.
I've put some serious road miles on some of my basses- Good as new. Knock on Wood.
That's not what's being stated.
What is being compared is the superior quality that goes into the fit and assembly between a higher-priced USA or Japan built model ve. a lower priced more mass-produced Indonesian, Korean, or Chinese bass.
Wouldn't you think the Builders themselves are aware of this???
An offshore Zon might be around $2K for example, while the real deal from Zon in NoCal will cost about 2x that.
G&L Tribbies are about half the price of their Fullerton counterparts; do you not think that G&L thinks their US-built models are the better product?
You get a good bass and a great value from the offshore builders, nobody should really dispute that (unless they want to!)
Point is, the higher-$$ basses from Domestic or Japanese high-end shops are better instruments.
That's the point I think.
The U.S. companies that produce domestic and outsource less expensive models are the ones that spec the products. They could certainly spec better fit and finish with higher quality hardware and electronics for their imports. I think that it part of the reason why the Lakin prices are higher than many might expect for an import "knock-off"; all the hardware is high quality stuff, which is not what you normally see on similar models.
But I agree; all else being equal, I would prefer to buy local. However, things are rarely equal! My main criteria is based on the value of the product. That being said, my main basses are Canadian and a lot of others are from the U.S.A.
Kinals are da bomb, F-Bass is top of the line anywhere, Dingwall(?) iirc, (or is he an Aussie??)
Great basses all! eh?
Personally I have no problems with instruments made outside of the US, I own them, gig them and recommend them. It just so happens that from the videos posted on the net that the US made G&L sounds better to me in the same hands than the Lakin offerings and they cost about the same.
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I love Ed, but his reviews tend to generally be on the positive side.
I recall reading somewhere that the reason Ed's reviews all seem overly positive is that he purposely only reviews things he thinks are good. Why spend time on reviews of bad products?
"Quality" is a tricky word. As is "value." Some worship "cost" above all else, but even that has hidden elements and 2nd/3rd order effects that people don't consider. We live in a global economy and point of manufacture is fuzzy at best. That said, there are certain parts of the chain that are evident, with the majority of the work being identifiable. Right now some spectacular instruments are coming out of Asia, and the bang-for-the-buck in some cases is very high. For some, that may be the main criteria...and for them that then is the right choice.
Since I live in the US, work in the US, and have been around long enough to see varies aspects of the economy ebb and flow, I can say that for me, with many of my purchases, bang for the buck is not the chief driver. Yes, I'd like a decent "deal", but I calculate value differently. Right now most every musical instrument I have is from small US builders (both bass and amp chain). I have been lucky enough and worked hard enough to afford that "luxury", but in some cases the price difference isn't that huge, especially if you consider the lifetime use of the tool. I'd rather have a few really nice instruments made by people in the US who give a damn about what they are doing, and are trying to make a living. I also try to avoid mail-order when I can and buy from local independent shops. In some cases I pay more, but they provide a personalized service that I consider of value.
In other cases, I deviate somewhat. My car is German, but from a local dealer. My keyboards are Swedish but there aren't any equivalent US builders. And many of my computing products are "designed in California" but built in China (though even that is starting to change).
Do I begrudge the Asian worker their due? Absolutely not. And in fact the growing Asian middle class means that they can buy their own instruments. But at some point you have to think beyond the immediate price of something.
This is a personal set of decisions, and I am not judging anyone else's actions. Everyone makes their own bed - I think they should consider the broader implications of their choice of sheets and pillows. Now I'm tired - but have to pack to make a 10:30am downbeat.
Since I live in the US, work in the US, and have been around long enough to see varies aspects of the economy ebb and flow, I can say that for me, with many of my purchases, bang for the buck is not the chief driver. Yes, I'd like a decent "deal", but I calculate value differently. Right now most every musical instrument I have is from small US builders (both bass and amp chain). I have been lucky enough and worked hard enough to afford that "luxury", but in some cases the price difference isn't that huge, especially if you consider the lifetime use of the tool. I'd rather have a few really nice instruments made by people in the US who give a damn about what they are doing, and are trying to make a living. I also try to avoid mail-order when I can and buy from local independent shops. In some cases I pay more, but they provide a personalized service that I consider of value.
In other cases, I deviate somewhat. My car is German, but from a local dealer. My keyboards are Swedish but there aren't any equivalent US builders. And many of my computing products are "designed in California" but built in China (though even that is starting to change).
Do I begrudge the Asian worker their due? Absolutely not. And in fact the growing Asian middle class means that they can buy their own instruments. But at some point you have to think beyond the immediate price of something.
This is a personal set of decisions, and I am not judging anyone else's actions. Everyone makes their own bed - I think they should consider the broader implications of their choice of sheets and pillows. Now I'm tired - but have to pack to make a 10:30am downbeat.
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I love Ed, but his reviews tend to generally be on the positive side.
I listen to what he plays but not what he says.
DiabolusInMusic
Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism
Kinals are da bomb, F-Bass is top of the line anywhere, Dingwall(?) iirc, (or is he an Aussie??)
Great basses all! eh?
Dingwall is located in my city, within Canada. The Dingwall deals I have seen would blow your mind...
Now it's "the first few"?
No, it's still just the first "ONE".
Wishful thinking? Why would you even say that?
Hopkins
Commercial User
Nitro isn't a superior finish compared to urethane, and is not a marker of quality. In fact urethane is a superior finish in every way to nitro, it doesn't crack or check as easy, is more durable, and doesn't yellow over time. I realize that these are the reasons some people like nitro, but they are still markers of an obsolete finish, that has been replaced by a better product. Nitro doesn't automatically signify quality or price. PRS, are some of the best guitars on the market, and some of the most expensive mass produced guitars, and they use V.O.C. urethane on an polyester base coat. It isn't the same thing as those 1/8" thick finishes that people associate with Poly, a good urethane finish should be no thicker than a nitro finish.
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