NBD!! (Fender Ultra)...and a question.

[deepestend]

If you read the original post, it's there in black and white. The saddle won't adjust down far enough.

i read that but there's a lot of interaction between nut depth, relief, bridge, overspray in the neck pocket, that fender shim adjustment screw, etc.. It all adds up. The obvious answer is the bridge but in my experience you need to look at it all.

I was setting up a buddy's new strat last night that wasn't playing quite right. One culprit was that the shim screw was engaged at the factory. I would not have known this unless I had taken off the neck.

Sometimes the obvious answer is the one. Maybe it is a bridge issue.

 

[LBS-bass]

Ahem. Think for a second. His issues are at the bridge. Bridge saddles are cut with a "V" shape - they are not specific to the gauge of string used, and will work for any gauge of string. Indeed, a C string in a V shape will ride a bit lower than the G that is "normal". The OP is having problems because, even though the string is running lower, it's still too high. The problem is....the bass isn't made right - his running it "out pf spec" isn't causing an issue, it's mitigating it, but...not enough.

The bass is not made right. I stand by my statement, and the facts (when you think about it) support that assertion.

You could address this issue from either end, or maybe both; working on it at the bridge is simpler.

The thin C string is too thin for the way this bass is spec'd, and it rides high in the saddle, so one or the other end needs to be lowered (or maybe both) in order to accommodate the thinness of that particular string.

He's tried lowering the standard saddle but there isn't enough depth available. There's no problem with the bridge beyond the fact that the standard bridge saddle being used is supposed to be accommodating a thicker string. Put a correct saddle on it for that string and you'll solve that problem

 

[p12bassnut]

Every Bass I've ever owned had the G string too high even with minimal neck relief.
I would take the bridge string saddle off and file it down a little (the area of the saddle that would normally make contact with the bridge.) This in turn allows the saddle to be lowered more.
Another option would be to use a very small round rat tail file and file down the part of the saddle that the string actually contacts (on top) This causes the string to be lower.
Bear in mind that small adjustments make a big impact so take it slow and do the trial/retry method.
I do not like using neck shims if at all possible.

 

[micguy]

The thin C string is too thin for the way this bass is spec'd, and it rides high in the saddle....

Think about that statement for a second - A saddle is a V shape - the skinnier the string is, the lower it sits.

 

[micguy]

Put a correct saddle on it for that string and you'll solve that problem

I have a lot of basses - 5 strings. All the saddles have the same shape - a V. The smaller strings work, the big strings work. There is no "correct" or incorrect.

 

[LBS-bass]

I have a lot of basses - 5 strings. All the saddles have the same shape - a V. The smaller strings work, the big strings work. There is no "correct" or incorrect.

OK fine you're right have a great day.

 

[Spectre Gunner]

The truss rod should not be used to adjust action. That is the job of the bridge and If you use the truss rod then your trading proper neck bow/back bow alignment for string height and may result in buzzing frets. The primary way to lower your string action is to use a neck shim. Stew Mac sells them in precut shims in various sizes and they don't cost much. The second best way is modify or change your bridge.

By the way, a proper neck shim is not likely to have any impact on tone. Besides, if a shim does alter the tone, wouldn't luthiers and players be using them to adjust tone of their instrument? I was watching a bass setup clinic on YouTube by Roger Sadowsky and in summary, he stated that "a properly installed neck shim will have no effect at all on tone. Using a neck shim is the best way to adjust string height when you reached the lower limit of bridge adjustment.".

This is a Q&A on bass setup by two Master Luthiers - Rodger Sadowsky and Michael Tobias (MTD). Rodger briefly explains neck shimming at approximately the 13:15 timeline.


If you don't to use a shim then cut a deeper V in that one saddle as previously suggested. But if you do that, take the saddle off and put it in a vise to avoid accidentally scratching your brand new bass and to keep the metal shavings from sticking to the pickups and getting into places that can cause problems. If you file it while on the bass then at least completely cover the pickups with masking tape.

Bringing your bass back to original is simply a matter of removing the shim or replacing the saddle.

It's true the traditional bass is designed for standard tuning and standard string sizes. However, you'd think that after 50+ years of Fender basses that Fender would have added room for a couple more turns of a screw to accommodate alternative tuning and string size. Especially, when it would have absolutely no negative impact and could avoid having to use a shim in the first place.

The nut only effects the string height and sound of an open string. Once you press a string down with your finger that will then effect the string height and pitch.
This is why it's proper to use a capo or press down the first fret when setting string action.

However, replacing the nut is recommended since the nut has been cut for a G size string rather the smaller C. But before replacing the nut you can try filing it a little deeper with the correct size file. Your string will of course be lower but it just might work for you and may be able to avoid a nut job (pun intended).

 

[jadenjazz]

Thanks for all replies and suggestions! Last night curiosity got the better of me and I decided to try a shim. I cut a 1/4" strip of paper (the thickness of a business card) and fitted it to the back of the neck pocket; it was enough to get me in the butter zone that I was needing. In addition, I ordered an identical bridge saddle that I'm planning to file down and use as the permanent solution (removing the shim of course). I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[wes stephenson]

Thanks guys...good advice! And I had not thought about getting a extra saddle to experiment with. Glad I posted

I've shaved off a little bit of the bottom saddle of a couple of basses and never had a problem. I think that would be your best bet.

 

[Geri O]

A bass straight out of the factory whose saddles won't go low enough for proper action is either poorly designed, poorly made, or both. It's 2021, we have CAD and CNC manufacturing that can make things to within a gnat's eyelash of where they were designed to be. This kind of crap should be long gone at this point - especially on a relatively high dollar instrument. I'd be taking the thing back.

Please….

Folks have been buying Fender basses, shimming the necks, and not getting their feelings hurt for years. Your point is taken, but it is what it is, whether anyone agrees or approves or not.

 

[Joybass]

This bridge is a bit of a bugger on the Ultra line 5 strings. This time the G/C saddle won't go low enough. In another thread a guy complained that his G string sat too close to the edge of the neck. Too wide, too high, just not right. Are you listening Fender?

 

[SJan3]

Hello TB!

My new Fender American Jazz Ultra V just arrived today! Absolutely beautiful! Plays, sounds, and feels better than I even hoped!

I bought this bass with the intention of stringing it E-C. But after I did the first setup today, I found I would like action of the high C string to be lower and there is no more adjustment left in the saddle. My question is this: would shimming the neck be the next logical step to try or will I need to file the nut (or both)? Thanks!!View attachment 4264652

IMHO, this is the result of Fender putting high mass bridges on without compensating by changing the neck break angle. I'll bet a stamped steel bridge which will have a thinner base will fix the problem.
My 2011 Highway One Jazz had the same problem. Removed the Badass bridge in favor of an American Vintage bridge.
Problem solved.

 

[micguy]

Please….

Folks have been buying Fender basses, shimming the necks, and not getting their feelings hurt for years. Your point is taken, but it is what it is, whether anyone agrees or approves or not.

I work for a company that's been making some things for decades as well. We continually develop new products, but the ones that we've been making since the 60's....we improve the manufacturing of them as time goes on - they're more consistent than they ever were back then. It doesn't really cost us anything to do that, other than some time put in to refinement - modern manufacturing techniques and materials allow us to make a design from a bygone era, but make it very consistent - much more than when it was first designed. The amount of products that get returned in warranty in our case have gone down several orders of magnitude, because...all those little details that become more obvious over time we've worked on. All I'm doing is calling Fender out on being lazy - I know what it takes to fix these things (I do that for a living), and they just...don't spend time on that.

So, yes, it is what it is. I call it lazy. You can call it what you want to.

 

[TrevorG]

I was alway under the impression that stringing E to C meant fitting a new nut to match the new gauges.