Neck Dive (Poll)

[fig]

My assertion is there are far too many neck heavy basses that manufacturers put out for sale. As such, it's a blatant rip-off that takes our money for a badly designed instrument.

I'm sure there are clever engineers/designers working for manufacturers that can solve this issue before finalizing production runs. But it seems some bass makers don't care enough to do so.

I've had enough of this garbage. Recently passed up two new (not used) basses in a music store I would've liked. Settled on a third choice that wasn't neck heavy.

Anyway, to support my assertion, I need numbers as to how many of you do or don't like neck heavy basses.

I'll be pegging on neck heavy manufacturers as I find them and will need numbers as support if the numbers are overwhelmingly "don't like neck dive".

I'm aware of the multitude of workarounds suggested in this forum, and web, to correct neck dive. No need to repeat them here. My entire point is we shouldn't have to be working around and settling for deficient products that are new from the manufacturers.

 

[MrAB4003]

This is one reason why I don't like Gibson Thunderbirds, Epiphone EB-3s, and similar basses.

 

[msb]

I can live with slight dive , but only a little.

 

[SubHuman]

Settled on a third choice that wasn't neck heavy.

Can you reveal what you bought, or do you feel it would sway your poll? I've been playing for 50+ years and I have owned and played dozens of basses and just never experienced neck dive so bad that I couldn't play the instrument.

 

[madscientist]

My assertion is there are far too many neck heavy basses that manufacturers put out for sale.

I'm sure there are clever engineers/designers working for manufacturers that can solve this issue before finalizing production runs. But it seems some bass makers don't care enough to do so.

My entire point is we shouldn't have to be working around and settling for deficient products that are new from the manufacturers.

Amen to that. The majority of guitars are balanced, and the majority of basses are not. Bass is already a more physically demanding instrument, so it's a shame that we have to deal with dive too.

To your point, the physics of balance isn't complicated - manufacturers could and would do better if financially motivated to do so, but... bass players continue to buy divey basses, so companies keep making them.

 

[beatdatthang]

Neck dive is a phenomenon that can happen to just about any bass - even some P and J basses dive so the 12th fret rule isn’t exclusive. All you need to do to fix it is reposition the strap buttons (and maybe use lighter weight tuners) to fix the ergonomics. Companies like Dingwall figured this out on their Droc/Dbird so even though the bodies are the same size as a Thunderbird, and they have a longer scale length, they don’t dive at all. They’re also very light in the body weight so they don’t correct it by adding weight to the body (my Dbird is about 8 lbs). Move the strap pins. Done.

 

[Moving Pictures]

I’m not a fan of neck dive. It can be as bad on a shoulder as a bass that is too heavy. And, it makes a heavy bass feel worse.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

I can overlook at lot of defects in an instrument, but I’m very picky about neckdive.

I once owned a beautiful Roscoe SKB3006 that had bad neckdive. It caused serious cramps in my fretting hand’s forearm.

Yes, I did try different straps, including wide straps.

For me, neckdive is a dealbreaker.

 

[Killing Floor]

How is it a badly designed instrument? It’s unarguable that a headless bass is a better engineered instrument. And “We” insist on basses that look just like Leo designed in the 1950s.
And I count ME among the WE.

But bass guitarists no longer have the right to complain about neck dive because there’s a solution and the only flaw in that solution is it doesn’t look like a 50s P bass.

I admit I’m part of the problem. But at least I am honest about the problem.

 

[Wasnex]

I will vote "don't like." Which is (IMHO) sort of duh!

However, IMHO it depends on how severe the problem is. My 1st bass, Ric 4001, had a bit of neck dive. I found it irritating, but I would not say it made me dislike the bass...perhaps like it less is more accurate...

Over the years I modded the Ric quite a bit. Installed Alembic Activator pickups, a Bad Ass II, and finally a 2-Tek and a battery compartment. The 2-Tek killed the neck dive, but it also made a heavy bass even heavier. In general, I'll take balance over weight.

I am tempted by the Jack Casady...I expect it will have neck dive, and that is definitely a negative. It's not like I actually need another bass, so maybe in this case, neck dive is a good thing .

 

[Altitude]

I wasn’t aware of neck dive as a thing before I learned about it here.

Pretty confident it mainly affects players who hold their instruments with the necks at an upward angle.

I hold mine with the neck nearer to horizontal; I find that my right arm rests on the bass body in such a way to counterbalance any tendency the neck might have to dive.

Not suggesting my way is more correct; only pointing out that neck dive only affects a subset of us.

 

[pingvuiini]

As enamored as I am with Spector basses, the potential for neck dive has kept me from ever getting one. I have never actually played one though, so its possible I may change my mind.

Many moons ago I bought a Warwick Thumb off eBay which had severe neck dive that I hated and sold right away.

 

[mikewalker]

The bass needs to just hang there so I can play it. I rarely use the thumb on my fretting hand, I just like to let the fingers float up and down the fretboard and do their dance on top of the strings. I have no desire to try to hold up an instrument while I play it (That's what straps are for...)

 

[J Wilson]

I had one bass I had to hold up to play (Gibson RD Artist, as if the damn thing wasn't a handful already at 12 pounds), and one was one too many. NEVER again.

 

[Dave Hill]

Fender basses are a fairly proven design and they all dive on the knee. Anything that dives on a strap is a no-go!

 

[badinage]

Only bass I ever owned where it was bad enough to annoy me was a Gibson SB450. A 34" scale neck on that SG body made it understandable. I was able to adapt.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

It depends on if we're talking neck dive while on a strap or neck dive while on your lap.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

I can handle a little neck dive. I had a mjt build with a ton of neck dive, hurt the shoulder too much so I swapped the neck. Smooth sailing after that

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

Hmmm... Really depends on the bass. I accommodate neck dive on my T-Bird, Fenderbird (actually technically a Squierbird), Fernandes Mockingbird(all "bird" basses, go figure) and maybe some others because the rest of the playing experience outweighs () the neck dive. I did have to return the Warwick Bootsy Star Bass, though...

The Bar Band Bassman

 

[fig]

Can you reveal what you bought, or do you feel it would sway your poll? I've been playing for 50+ years and I have owned and played dozens of basses and just never experienced neck dive so bad that I couldn't play the instrument.

I don't think it will sway the poll, as long as folk understand it isn't a promotion for the bass. Michael Kelly Pinnacle 5 bass. Bought it new (not used) at a local Sam Ash.: Pinnacle 5

Like you said, neck diving doesn't make it unplayable. We develop our playing style around subconsciously off-setting the unbalance with either a tighter neck grip or plucking hand/forearm counterbalance.

Been playing for about 45 years and never knew a difference until about 15 years ago. Took a bit of work to undo about 30 years of subconsciously offsetting the unbalance. Found I could get around the fingerboard easier and quicker. Overall my playing improved and broadened. Actually good to have both approaches under my belt, 'cause some songs work for me better with a tighter neck grip.