Neck Dive (Poll)

[micguy]

View attachment 5273234
Evidently not fighting neck dive. His hand would be near the headstock if that was the case...No?

You're looking at that picture wrong. He's holding it at about the center of gravity, which is the easiest place to hold something, as there is no torque to deal with. The fact that his hand, at the center of gravity, is at about the same place as the strap button means that bass is neck dive city. Which we all know - at least anyone who's tried to play one of those knows.

 

[SubHuman]

You're looking at that picture wrong. He's holding it at about the center of gravity, which is the easiest place to hold something, as there is no torque to deal with. The fact that his hand, at the center of gravity, is at about the same place as the strap button means that bass is neck dive city. Which we all know - at least anyone who's tried to play one of those knows.

Well that “sounds” scientific but I and thousands of others have personally played several models of those EB’s and never had to hold any of them at the “center of gravity” when not playing.
Am I defying gravity?

 

[micguy]

Well that “sounds” scientific

I'm a Physicist, so it is.

You don't have to hold a Gibson like that at the center of gravity, but you do have to supply both enough force to hold it up, and neutralize the torque so it doesn't rotate. Holding it at the center of gravity removes the torque issue, but you can also let the strap hold most of the weight, and supply the torque by pulling up it at any point on the neck. That method is what we are trying to avoid - we'd like the torque to be neutralized without having to hold on to the thing at all, so our hands are free to play the thing.

My point was that him not grabbing the thing out at the end of the neck doesn't prove it doesn't have neck dive. And yes, science is the key to understanding things like this.

 

[FRoss6788]

If you let go of an EB or "SG" bass the neck will head to the floor, period. It's just not a matter of debate.

Whether that bothers you or not is personal preference.

 

[SubHuman]

I'm a Physicist, so it is.

Jack Bruce defying gravity on an EB!
What do ya know!

Just having a little fun. I personally don’t have any issues with neck dive on Fenders, Gibbys or Epi’s but I see many here do.

 

[micguy]

Jack Bruce defying gravity on an EB!
What do ya know!
View attachment 5273372

Just having a little fun. I personally don’t have any issues with neck dive on Fenders, Gibbys or Epi’s but I see many here do.

If he was defying gravity, he'd be floating, probably upside down. Seems to be standing on a stage, as far as I can tell. He's also old enough in this pic that he needs a stool to sit on at times - gravity was definitely a factor in his later concerts.

You can also fight neck dive by holding the butt end of the bass down (neutralizing that torque thing again) - note that his right forearm is wrapped around the thing.

Here's a listing for that model of bass. The one in this listing is 10 pounds 2 ounces - for a small bodied instrument and a short scale, that's a HEAVY body - that's some really dense wood. One more thing to consider, and maybe part of why Jack had to sit down.

1969 Gibson EB-1 Violin Bass Jack Bruce Cream - Original Case, Stand, Natural Mahogany!

 

[ajkula66]

If you let go of an EB or "SG" bass the neck will head to the floor, period. It's just not a matter of debate.

Not on all of them.

Late '60s pieces with thin necks are far less prone to neck dive than pre-'67 basses with wide/thick necks. Neither of my '69s dives, whether you choose to believe it or not. Hipshot bridge on both helps, no questions there.

They do hang differently, but do not inherently dive, unless we're talking about long scale units.

The only bass which I owned where the neck dive really bothered me was an alu-necked Kramer...but it did sound like a million bucks.

I see a lot of comments here and elsewhere about Thumbs being neck divers. I never really noticed that - had a 4-string and a fiver, both NT, around '90/91 - but the reach for the lower positions was very difficult and out the door these otherwise stellar instruments went. Main reason why I never bought a ThunderBird. But I digress...

If I like a bass well enough in most respects, neck dive by itself is unlikely to put me completely off. I do play seated nowadays for health reasons, though, so it's definitely easier on me than on someone who puts up with a three hour gig standing on regular basis...

 

[fig]

Alright, this poll is about played out and I got what I need. Thank you all for your time to respond and to relate your opinions and experiences.

Why did I include "You like basses with neck dive."?
It seems silly to me, too, but I couldn't just assume there are absolutely 0 people liking neck dive. There just might be some who do.

I can't make a valid, verifiable assertion to a manufacturer that starts with "I assume..." or "I think...". It's why I need actual numbers, so the "Like" question was included. Besides, the "don't like" needed a polar opposite statement.

What do you expect to accomplish?
I have no illusions about it doing anything by itself. I'm not even gonna ask anyone here to join in.

But there may be a time when you're rejecting too many basses because of neck dive and get fed up with it. I'm sure the manufacturer would like your feedback regarding the sale they missed. That'd add your feedback to others who may be doing the same.

Neck heavy basses are a negative and manufacturers know this. From design and engineering to the final testers who sling a bass on for final testing. Ever seen a brand new bass with a product description or spec that makes mention of being neck heavy? I haven't in 40+ years. Sure would be useful info when falling in love with one before going to the music store or ordering online. On the other hand, I have seen basses mention when they are balanced, because manufacturers know it's a selling point.

So far, the numbers are showing a majority of players not liking neck diving basses. Another way to look at it is the manufacturers are alienating a large majority of their target customers, thus losing sales. Hella business model, huh?

And for you players who chose "doesn't matter", I envy you. Opens up more choices than for us 'picky' folk LOL.

Thanks again.

 

[John Stephen]

The only bass I have ever owned that gave me neck dive was the original Fender Kingman Acoustic bass. I am a Fender junkie so when I saw they released an acousic bass with their iconic headstock I was smitten. However, after I got it, I realized it was an awful design and terribly balanced. The bod was very wide and it hurt my right forearm from the hard edge, it was not very light, and worst of all ,the NECK DIVE. Not just on a strap, but on my lap as well. It was my main complaint for years, while just noodling around was fine, extended playing was so uncomfortable. My left arm would get so sore from trying to hold up the bass that it limited my playing of it.

My electric basses are P basses and a jaguar. They all sit great with no dive. You don't really realize how annoying neck dive is when you've never played an instrument that suffers from it, but once you do, (at least for me) It's just not something that is comfortable. The guitarist of my band is in love with Thunderbirds and BC Rish basses, and I told him I will never touch his bass collection because of one thing specifically, the neck dive lol.

I am VERY happy that a few years ago Fender came out with the Kinman 2.0 which had a smaller body and no neck dive (it being short scale I'm sure helps, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make, the thing is fun as hell to play). I can play that thing for much much longer and it is way more comfortable than the original.

Curious about the Kingman short-scale. It has pegs that hold the strings in place by the bridge, right? So you can’t use electric bass strings, or can you?