Hi Wasnex,
So cool to hear from another Titan V12 owner! Thanks for providing the attachment and insight about setup. Yes, I do agree that a split stereo bass rig with identical cabs (and signal inputs) left and right of the drums will in fact create comb-filtering, if not other undesirable acoustic anomalies. I’m all on the vertical array approach of stacking the cabs and projecting my sound from one location.
However, I have an idea about adjusting the left and right signals slightly differently and hopefully, Eloise or at least, minimize the comb-filtering issues. I explain more on this below...
Yes, thank you for pointing out the power handling of the Subway line. Only the 410 has the power handling to match the Titan. This has me considering a pair of 410s as the 215 and 212 don’t have high enough power handing to match the 410. I could use the volume of each amp to adjust so it’s not a deal killer. Im curious if two 115s with a 212 or 210 on top of each would stand tall enough. The 215 and 212 are 30” high so stacking these comes in at 5’ tall which is good. Will get try out the Subway cabs when I pick up my Titans from Boogie factory next week. Will come back with my findings.
Yes, you are on point about a split can set up aiding in guitarist and bassist hearing each other better. Especially, when we are backed up against a wall and the PA is 8-12 feet in front. We hate trying to hearing with all the room sound...slap back off the side and back walls. We spend a lot of time tone chasing and we very much enjoy hearing each other play. Since we do it use in ears or put anything in the monitors other than vocals, having both the stereo guitar cabs and stereo bass cabs split on both sides of the drums would help us self-mix better. Hearing each other well is so important and inspires us to elevate our performance. Plus, I am using more FX in our new material. With us both using Helix, we were thinking splitting would create some cool FX. We don’t have a lead guitarist, so I have an expanded role over playing traditional bass lines locked with the kick. We do a lot of odd meter time signatures and syncopated rhythms and I’m more like the other guitarist. I’m also going to start adding keyboard parts through my rig for intros and extended instrumental sections. I’m very much looking to utilize some bass pedal sounds and synth through the Helix/Boogie rig. I’m thinking these sounds will translate better in a stereo set up, considering that Helix allows for individual delay and EQ for left and the right channels of the stereo signal. Being that my guitarist will have the same, we can dial in when we are completely in unison and when we are totally different. Using a slightly different delay and EQ for each left and right of the bass signal should eliminate the comb-filtering issue or any phasing issues. I do have some friends that are FOH engineers at large venues and will inquire with them about this split stereo bass rig approach. Will share their feed back, in case others may be curious about this approach.
Kind regards,
Michael
It's unlikely that your guitarist will want or need the bass as loud as you do. In my experience typically people prefer to hear themself about 6-10dB louder than everyone else. Since you have two Titans you have the opportunity to run one at a level that will push the room and meet your needs on stage. If you plan to split the speaker, the second stack be adjusted for the guitarists monitoring needs. He's probably going to want his guitar and vocals 6-10dB louder than the bass. If the guitarist's bass monitor runs at a significantly lower level than your main rig, it will minimize comb filtering. You may also be able to use a smaller speaker for the guitar monitor. I.E. less cost and less weight to haul around.
My advice is to audition the cabs and choose whichever sounds best to you. Then you can take a modular approach. If you like the 15s, consider buying a pair of 215s to handle the full power of one Titan and a pair of 115s that can be used however you see fit. If you like the 10s, you could probably get away with three cabs. Two 410s would serve as your rig, so you have the desire height and power handling, and the third cab would serve as the guitarist bass monitor when needed.
Something you might not be aware off, the Titans output power actually drops at 2 ohms. Here is the amps specs: 1200 Watts @ 4 Ohms (840 Watts @ 2 Ohms, 650 Watts @ 8 Ohms). So the amp makes max power at 4 ohms.
You also need to consider the benefit you get from using extra speakers. Theoretically a single Subway 410 will make 131.5dB with 1200W. I believe this is calculated so the real world figure would be a bit lower do to power compression. If you use a pair of 410s the power is split two ways, so each cab only gets 420W. Remember the amp only makes 840W at 2 ohms.
This will drop the dB of each cab by about 4.5dB. 131.5-4.5=127dB. However at low frequencies you get coupling between the cabs across the frequency range where driver spacing is within approximately 1/4 wavelength. Theoretically this adds +6dB. 12+6=133dB.
The difference in SPL between 131.5dB and 133dB is hardly noticeable. But remember the coupling only occurs in the low end so the sound will be a bit fuller. Also there will be less power compression operating the cab at 420W, so there may actually be a noticeable increase in SPL.
An important factor we have not considered is the 410 is mechanically limited to 925W at 79.9hz, so it really won't take 1,200W of heavy bass. Running a pair of 410s will significantly increase the safety factor for the cabs and you get about the same SPL with a bit fuller low end.
Compare the mechanical power handling of the 215 which is limited to 800W at 68hz VS the 410s 925W at 79.9hz. At this point the 410s 1200W RMS thermal rating really doesn't really give it much of an advantage over the 215s 800W RMS thermal rating, especially if you plan to run heavy lows. So I say pick the cab that sounds best and operate whichever your choose with reasonable expectations. Per the specs both the 410 and 215 have the same sensitivity rating.
Additional Fact
Avg Mechanical RMS from 50-1000z.
410 = 1000W
215 = 800W
The decibel different between 1,000W and 800W is ~0.97dB.
Regardless if which cab you choose, you need a pair if you are going to push the amp to it's limit...and then the amp will generate less power, so your stuck with sort of a catch 22.
Another factor to consider is some people have indicated their Titan has a tendency to shutdown when pushed really hard at 2 ohms, even with the factory updates.
