I can assure you that short of using relays, the setup described in post 9 in not possible with toggle switches.
To go from all coils series to all coils parallel alone will take 6 switch poles.
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Need help from a wiring master..
- Thread starter Aka Nameless
- Start date
I can assure you that short of using relays, the setup described in post 9 in not possible with toggle switches.
To go from all coils series to all coils parallel alone will take 6 switch poles.
Nope, can't be done the way you described it using only 2 to 4 pole mini toggles.
Is there a way to do this setup at all? Would I have to add another switch? Use different types of switches? What if I got rid of the inner coil splitting thing, so its just neck and bridge humbucker, would it be possible then with my current knob/switch configuration?
With a 7P3T rotary and a 4P3T rotary, you could pull it off, except for the inner coils thing.
It would be all coils when both pickups are selected.
I can do a diagram for that if you want it.
Well, since you have a lot of experience with different wiring setups, let me ask you something.
When I came up with this wiring idea that everyone thinks is crazy, I heard that series/parallel is the best choice for different tones with the benefit of being humbucking when doing it to humbuckers or opposite wind/polarity coils, and the first thing that came to mind was.. 3 humbucker choices in series/parallel, all humbucking, and with the addition of volume for series/parallel, so I could adjust the volume beforehand and when playing live I could switch to any configuration with little to no volume drop, and no hum.
I'm amazed that nobody has tried this before, because to me, it seems like the most logical wiring setup for a lot of tone choices all hum canceling.
Anyway, do you think there is a different, more simple wiring setup that you could recommend me, after knowing what i'm after? Or should I go all out and do whatever it takes to get the sounds I "think" I want?
When I came up with this wiring idea that everyone thinks is crazy, I heard that series/parallel is the best choice for different tones with the benefit of being humbucking when doing it to humbuckers or opposite wind/polarity coils, and the first thing that came to mind was.. 3 humbucker choices in series/parallel, all humbucking, and with the addition of volume for series/parallel, so I could adjust the volume beforehand and when playing live I could switch to any configuration with little to no volume drop, and no hum.
I'm amazed that nobody has tried this before, because to me, it seems like the most logical wiring setup for a lot of tone choices all hum canceling.
Anyway, do you think there is a different, more simple wiring setup that you could recommend me, after knowing what i'm after? Or should I go all out and do whatever it takes to get the sounds I "think" I want?
Personally, I would just do series/single coil/parallel switches for each pickup and a master series/parallel switch plus a pickup selector.
With a 4PDT mini toggle for the series/parallel, you can run through one volume pot in parallel mode, and bypass the pickup selector switch and go straight to the other volume pot in series mode.
Perhaps add a push/pull killswitch as well.
So in that configuration, the master series/parallel would only be in the circuit when both pickups are in the single coil middle position, and then the signal would be sent to their respective volume control? Or on the pickup selector switch is it neck/single coils/bridge, and when single coils is selected it is routed to the master series/parallel?
I'm kinda confused of how that would all work.. but it sounds like its on the right track.
I'm kinda confused of how that would all work.. but it sounds like its on the right track.
You have to manually switch the series/single coil/parallel switches to single coil mode when you want the inner coils.
The problem with your original plan, as described in post #9 is that the wiring for the inner coils is different in series mode than parallel. Series means shorting one coil and bringing the other coil's lead to either the hot or the ground, depending on which coil you want. Parallel means disconnecting one coil from the circuit.
Trying to have the inner coils selected on the pickup selector regardless of whether those coils are in series or parallel means you need two sets of pickup selector poles, one for series configurations and one for parallel configurations. The series/parallel switch would toggle between these two sets of poles based on whether a series configuration was needed, or a parallel configuration.
It's pretty much the same thing with the setup I just described in post #27.
Selecting the inner coils only requires a ridiculous amount of switching and extra poles to pull off. The best way to do it is to just have series/single coil/parallel switches on each pickup, and manually select the single coils when you want the inner coils option.
The way it works would be like this:
Series/single coil/parallel switches per-pickup, plus a master series/parallel switch that puts the two pickups in series regardless of their individual series/single coil/parallel settings, and the pickup selector no longer applies in series mode. The pickup selector switch, used only for the parallel setting, (Both pickups parallel regardless of individual series/single coil/parallel settings.) would select neck/both/bridge.
You get one volume control for the master series configuration, and a second volume for the master parallel configuration.
So, in series mode the individual pickup switch (ser/sc/par) would be bypassed as well as the pickup selecter? So it would be both humbuckers (all 4 coils) wired in series, with one volume/tone dedicated to them? And no settings would change anything except volume/tone in series mode?
In parallel mode the pickup selecter works and all pickup selections (neck/coils/bridge) would be in parallel? With the other volume/tone dedicated to them.
But, what about the individual pickup series/single coil/parallel switches, where do those get used? Is there a master series/parallel bypass that i'm missing? How would I play just the bridge humbucker in series (my main pickup choice)?
Sorry for all the questions, trying to wrap my head around all this stuff.
Thanks so much for your patience and help so far.
In parallel mode the pickup selecter works and all pickup selections (neck/coils/bridge) would be in parallel? With the other volume/tone dedicated to them.
But, what about the individual pickup series/single coil/parallel switches, where do those get used? Is there a master series/parallel bypass that i'm missing? How would I play just the bridge humbucker in series (my main pickup choice)?
Sorry for all the questions, trying to wrap my head around all this stuff.
Thanks so much for your patience and help so far.
The individual pickup series/single coil/parallel switches always work, regardless of whether the two pickups are series or parallel relative to each other.
The pickup selector switch is taken out of the circuit when the two pickups are in series with each other.
The reason being that they become one big pickup, so the pickup selector switch would otherwise mute the output if you were soloing the bridge pickup with both pickups in series with each other.
Ohh, ok, gotcha.
Ya that would be perfect. Would you happen to have a diagram already drawn up for this configuration on your website?
Ya that would be perfect. Would you happen to have a diagram already drawn up for this configuration on your website?
Nope, never done one like this before.
I'll draw one tomorrow.
You want a tone control and a killswitch too, right?
Fixed it, realised i missed it
Thanks for all the help
Hope A440hz didn't pull all his hair out trying to figure out the other wiring setup =-/
Thanks for all the help
Hope A440hz didn't pull all his hair out trying to figure out the other wiring setup =-/
Alright, the visual layout is a bit funky, but here you go:
The two series/single coil/parallel switches are to the left.
The neck pickup splits to the south coil, and the bridge pickup splits to the north coil.
Use DPDT On/On/On switches.
The 4PDT switch is the master series/parallel.
Use an On/On switch.
To the right of the 4PDT is the pickup selector switch.
It selects neck/both/bridge, only in parallel mode. In series mode, it is taken out of the circuit.
Use a DPDT On/On/On switch.
Below the 4PDT is the killswitch.
A SPST, SPDT, DPST or DPDT On/On will all work.
As far as the pots go, from top to bottom:
Parallel volume.
Series volume.
Parallel tone.
Series tone.
The two series/single coil/parallel switches are to the left.
The neck pickup splits to the south coil, and the bridge pickup splits to the north coil.
Use DPDT On/On/On switches.
The 4PDT switch is the master series/parallel.
Use an On/On switch.
To the right of the 4PDT is the pickup selector switch.
It selects neck/both/bridge, only in parallel mode. In series mode, it is taken out of the circuit.
Use a DPDT On/On/On switch.
Below the 4PDT is the killswitch.
A SPST, SPDT, DPST or DPDT On/On will all work.
As far as the pots go, from top to bottom:
Parallel volume.
Series volume.
Parallel tone.
Series tone.
D'oh. Looks like line6man beat me to it. I had a drawing close, but I had some intervening stuff going on (life!).
Here's what I got. It's a DPDT on-on-on and a 4PDT on-on, plus a SPDT for the killswitch. Sounds like we had the same idea, l6m. I'm not making this up, BTW. I can't even see your (l6m's) drawing here at work. I assume it's much more of a wiring diagram than my wiring/schematic, given the other great work of yours I've seen.
Notes: Jumps where wires cross on the schematic but are not to be connected together are shown with little arcs where they cross. If lines join together with no arc, they should be connected or go to the same destination (it's easier to just solder them to the same lug on a switch or pot).
Switch directions and their functions are shown from the perspective of the bottom of the switch and the connections, not in reference to the switch paddle! The switch paddle is usually opposite from the bottom connections, so keep that in mind when you're wiring up the harness.
The DPDT on-on-on switch is shown with the middle position connections in dotted boxes. Check the connections of the lugs in the middle. If your switch has the connections mirror-flipped horizontally, you'll need to flip the wiring connections horizontally (mirrored) as well.
Here's what I got. It's a DPDT on-on-on and a 4PDT on-on, plus a SPDT for the killswitch. Sounds like we had the same idea, l6m. I'm not making this up, BTW. I can't even see your (l6m's) drawing here at work. I assume it's much more of a wiring diagram than my wiring/schematic, given the other great work of yours I've seen.
Notes: Jumps where wires cross on the schematic but are not to be connected together are shown with little arcs where they cross. If lines join together with no arc, they should be connected or go to the same destination (it's easier to just solder them to the same lug on a switch or pot).
Switch directions and their functions are shown from the perspective of the bottom of the switch and the connections, not in reference to the switch paddle! The switch paddle is usually opposite from the bottom connections, so keep that in mind when you're wiring up the harness.
The DPDT on-on-on switch is shown with the middle position connections in dotted boxes. Check the connections of the lugs in the middle. If your switch has the connections mirror-flipped horizontally, you'll need to flip the wiring connections horizontally (mirrored) as well.
Attachments
BTW, in reading the rest of the thread, I have implemented what you (the OP) wanted:
*Master series/parallel
*Neck (both coils)/Inner coils/Bridge (both coils)
*Separate volume tone for series & parallel modes
Master Series Parallel:--Series-------------------Parallel
-------------------------------------------------------
Neck--------------------Neck coils in series------Neck coils in parallel
Inner-------------------Neck slug + Bridge Slug---Neck Slug || Bridge Slug
Bridge------------------Bridge coils in series----Bridge coils in parallel
All this, plus the separate volume tones (I needed a 4PDT instead of what I had predicted, a 3PDT, because of the need for isolation between the controls) and the killswitch.
line6man, please feel free to check my work. I don't think all the poles you mentioned were needed because I normalled some of the coil wires. Thus, some things aren't grounded when they're inactive; they're just open-circuited.
BTW, Aka Nameless, this is a pretty cool wiring scheme. It's not simple to implement, but it's interesting, and not too complicated to operate. It will give me something to chew on next time I do some wiring. I currently have a Tele in a H-S-H setup, and one push-pull pot (volume) is for coil tapping both humbuckers, and the tone pot switch is for series/parallel for the combinations of pups. But I'm also using a SuperSwitch, which is a 5-way, 4-pole job which takes care of a lot of things without taking up too much space. But that setup gives me tons of great tones.
*Master series/parallel
*Neck (both coils)/Inner coils/Bridge (both coils)
*Separate volume tone for series & parallel modes
Master Series Parallel:--Series-------------------Parallel
-------------------------------------------------------
Neck--------------------Neck coils in series------Neck coils in parallel
Inner-------------------Neck slug + Bridge Slug---Neck Slug || Bridge Slug
Bridge------------------Bridge coils in series----Bridge coils in parallel
All this, plus the separate volume tones (I needed a 4PDT instead of what I had predicted, a 3PDT, because of the need for isolation between the controls) and the killswitch.
line6man, please feel free to check my work. I don't think all the poles you mentioned were needed because I normalled some of the coil wires. Thus, some things aren't grounded when they're inactive; they're just open-circuited.
BTW, Aka Nameless, this is a pretty cool wiring scheme. It's not simple to implement, but it's interesting, and not too complicated to operate. It will give me something to chew on next time I do some wiring. I currently have a Tele in a H-S-H setup, and one push-pull pot (volume) is for coil tapping both humbuckers, and the tone pot switch is for series/parallel for the combinations of pups. But I'm also using a SuperSwitch, which is a 5-way, 4-pole job which takes care of a lot of things without taking up too much space. But that setup gives me tons of great tones.
Ooo! Now that's cool.
I take back my previous statement that it can't be done.
Very nice work.
See if you can see this link at work?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jrkdesimone/4846966976/
Wow, thanks to both of you for taking the time to put these diagrams together.
Line6man,after thinking about that wiring scheme, I like it a lot, and will use it on one of my personal guitars cause it offers more tones, however the guitar i'm making atm, is for the other guitarist in my metal band, and he pretty much keeps his guitar in bridge humbucker always.. I think a wiring scheme like this would confuse him and most people heh, but for my next personal guitar, i'm probably gonna try this one out.
A440hz I think you figured out the original wiring scheme which is Awesome, hopefully someone can look over it and double check it to make sure everything is right (i'm not good enough for that). Like I said above, my other guitarist, and most people would be ok with a wiring setup like this with everything humbucking, they can keep it in series mode if they want the standard humbucking, and switch over to parallel for a little variety. It's a fine line between just enough tone control, and scaring people away with the ammount of tonal options. I think this scheme is a perfect balance.
You both are my heros!
But now you both have to fight to the death to see who wins my heart.
Line6man,after thinking about that wiring scheme, I like it a lot, and will use it on one of my personal guitars cause it offers more tones, however the guitar i'm making atm, is for the other guitarist in my metal band, and he pretty much keeps his guitar in bridge humbucker always.. I think a wiring scheme like this would confuse him and most people heh, but for my next personal guitar, i'm probably gonna try this one out.
A440hz I think you figured out the original wiring scheme which is Awesome, hopefully someone can look over it and double check it to make sure everything is right (i'm not good enough for that). Like I said above, my other guitarist, and most people would be ok with a wiring setup like this with everything humbucking, they can keep it in series mode if they want the standard humbucking, and switch over to parallel for a little variety. It's a fine line between just enough tone control, and scaring people away with the ammount of tonal options. I think this scheme is a perfect balance.
You both are my heros!
But now you both have to fight to the death to see who wins my heart.
