Need help picking out Bass Microphone...

[DanAdams]

I would say leave the mics to the engineers. Almost always a DI will be better in live situations anyway.
Providing a mic for a engineer to use is kinda like someone walking up to you and giving you a bass to play for that gig.
Once you're touring with Aerosmith or something, maybe the extreme nuance of mic selection and placement and isolation could be pondered upon for awhile, but there is no reason to complicate and muck up everything for the sake of muddying the mix, likely raising the noise floor and adding mic bleed.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

57 plus DI. Awesome combo

 

[xnewyorka]

I want to start Mic'ing my Genzler Bass rig at a big church I play at and wanted some good recommendations for a good Mic to do it with. I've never mic'd my rig before so I need some good suggestions of products that have been used my the TB brethren.

Out of curiosity, what is your reason for wanting to use a mic instead of using the DI already present in the back of your amp? And if you don't like the sound of that DI for some reason, maybe you may want to try a more "high end" DI such as a Radial JDI, or if you want to go "really high end", an A Designs REDDI or a Jule Monique or equivalent.
Unless you have an ultra-ultra high-fi FOH system, and the entire audience sits still and in complete silence just listening to every nuance of the performance with their eyes closed, I would think there won't be any practical difference between the Genzler DI or any of the more high end external ones. However, I do think there will be a "step down" in sound quality if you switch to using a mic, unless you have a good cabinet and your engineer is good at mic placement. And if you still want to try a mic after all this, an SM57 should do just fine. You can get slightly more accurate sound with mics that cost 2-3x as much, but again, it will be hard to tell the difference on the bass anyway.

If you are going to be doing any recording, it's a whole different ballgame. In that case, yes, you can get significant and noticeable improvements by upgrading to one of the external DI's I mentioned or similar. But that's not what you asked about...

 

[dxb]

FYI, B&H has Blue Encore 100i instrument mics on sale for $35 right now (normally $90 but click the little "clip coupon" thing on the product page to get the discount). I haven't tried them but I really like Blue mics in general and these are supposed to be similar to SM57s...

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[groovaholic]

The Magellan and Bass Array are going to produce a fairly hi-fi sound — meaning, your DI output will closely match what you’re hearing on stage.

So, I’d just take the post-EQ DI out from the back of your Magellan.

If you’re determined to use a mic rather than that DI, it’d help us to know what you’re trying to achieve that the DI won’t do.

 

[Blaze Barlow]

The SM58 and SM57 actually use the same transducer, so over most of the response range there isn't much difference. What difference is there is caused by the change in proximity effect by varying the distance between the source and capsule. Both of these mics have a rising response into what's called the intelligibility range (this is a big peak reaching into the 4,000 - 6,000 Hz range).


The biggest difference in the sound quality of some of these mics is how much proximity effect (up-close bass boost) they have. The EV RE-20 and RE-320 are designed to minimize the proximity effect (that's what all the ports on the side of the mic do). Another factor is whether the capsule is a large diaphragm or not. The AKG D112 and the EVs have large diaphragms (1-inch). The Shure's only have a 0.5-inch capsule, and there is no way that they will go as low in response. Forget what the specs say - listen to them.

I own most of those mics and have been in the business for a long time..so you are preaching to the choir..I was only passing some info on to someone who was looking for a mic for bass..the alternatives are many..it's still best to use a direct line out of the amp head..eliminates all the other sounds that are getting pulled into the mic..especially floor noise..the recording studio is a different situation..

 

[JRA]

If you’re determined to use a mic rather than that DI, it’d help us to know what you’re trying to achieve that the DI won’t do.

 

[monkeyland]

I really like a Beyer M88TG for bass amp duty when I want to use a mic.

 

[TheReceder]

FWIW, in one of the churches we attend and play in, we use DI for the main worship service stage. The youth / mid week service sanctuary stage uses a Crate BX-100 of which I have some prior knowledge (I donated it), and a Behringer XM8500 mic, again I donated it.... It works great for the venue at hand.

I'm in the same boat here. Only issue I had was when I started playing bass at the Church I was at, they wanted me to run DI only. but the subs were right by the pastor so all he heard was bass. He complained so they turned me down to the point where I was playing Mime bass, and I couldn't hear a thing. I have since donated an amp, and a bass. Now at least I can hear myself play, it's a small enough facility that I can project with a small amp and the presider doesn't get blown away by the lows. Ideally I'd love to have a sytem that was designed for live music, but they have bose ( it rocks for spoken word, but sucks for live music).

 

[pigpen1]

I've always wanted to try that out on kick. Might be amazing for bass cab.

Audio-Technica AE2500 Dual-Element Microphone

Owned one and hated it for kick drum. Doesn't do much for you on bass cab because the whole point of it was to solve the issuse of dual miked kicks having the inside mic and outside mic different distances from the sound source. It doesn't that but it didn't sound good to me. I sold it and went back to using audix d6, or if I wanted dual mics and sm91 or something similar on the inside possibly combined with a beta 52 or d6, on the outside, getting them the right distance apart to invert the phase (or not have to). Then I got lazy and just said 1 mic is enough.

 

[SLO Surfer]

My cab's will be the Genzler array Cabs so they are different from normal bass cabs in that they don't have a Horn and instead run a array of smaller speakers. View attachment 3075890

Save your money and headaches trying to find the best mic placement for your unusually designed cab, and just buy a mic cable to run from the DI out on the back of your head. It will be way easier and sound better.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Micing a cabinet may not always be optimal or the best choice for the sound goals and gear that a bass player has - and I agree that with the OP's rig and playing situation, DI would be the more obvious choice - but some of you cats act like micing a bass cabinet is some sort of esoteric technique that requires a graduate degree in sound production and even then, it will probably sound like the crap of a thousand horse bums.

 

[monkeyland]

Micing a cabinet may not always be optimal or the best choice for the sound goals and gear that a bass player has - and I agree that with the OP's rig and playing situation, DI would be the more obvious choice - but some of you cats act like micing a bass cabinet is some sort of esoteric technique that requires a graduate degree in sound production and even then, it will probably sound like crap.

It really is amazing how passionately anti-mic some folks are.

No answer is right for everyone, just as none are alway wrong.

 

[FugaziBomb]

Micing a cabinet may not always be optimal or the best choice for the sound goals and gear that a bass player has - and I agree that with the OP's rig and playing situation, DI would be the more obvious choice - but some of you cats act like micing a bass cabinet is some sort of esoteric technique that requires a graduate degree in sound production and even then, it will probably sound like crap.

I'll second this. The issue is most mics that are good enough at picking up low end are probably gonna be picking up all kinds of rumble from the stage. For me, my set up requires I mic my cab to send my OD and other effects to FOH. I've gotten around low end cross-talk by using an SM57 and a DI.

 

[Bassworship1]

Save your money and headaches trying to find the best mic placement for your unusually designed cab, and just buy a mic cable to run from the DI out on the back of your head. It will be way easier and sound better.

I'm not new to DI setups and have used my Genzler Head cabs at 100's of gigs with great success of just the DI out as the Genzler has one of the best DI's I've heard on a head no matter the cost. Problem with this big church I'm playing at now 2-3 times a week is we tried the DI out and it had considerable feedback no matter the cables or the ports to the board. When use a Mic it sounded much better and clearer. I have another Genzler head coming that the church bought so maybe something has happened to my head since the last show with the di.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I'm not new to DI setups and have used my Genzler Head cabs at 100's of gigs with great success of just the DI out as the Genzler has one of the best DI's I've heard on a head no matter the cost. Problem with this big church I'm playing at now 2-3 times a week is we tried the DI out and it had considerable feedback no matter the cables or the ports to the board. When use a Mic it sounded much better and clearer. I have another Genzler head coming that the church bought so maybe something has happened to my head since the last show with the di.

I'm not downplaying your experience, but a DI shouldn't feedback. The problem is either with the tuning of the system itself or the operator behind the desk (which is most likely, as churches often rely on volunteer help that really have no business behind a mixing console).

 

[monkeyland]

I'm not new to DI setups and have used my Genzler Head cabs at 100's of gigs with great success of just the DI out as the Genzler has one of the best DI's I've heard on a head no matter the cost. Problem with this big church I'm playing at now 2-3 times a week is we tried the DI out and it had considerable feedback no matter the cables or the ports to the board. When use a Mic it sounded much better and clearer. I have another Genzler head coming that the church bought so maybe something has happened to my head since the last show with the di.

I think you have a different problem. There is virtually no way you will get feedback because of a DI.

Do you mean hum/buzz? That can be present in DI signals and typically has to do with electrical issues.

 

[Bassworship1]

I'm not downplaying your experience, but a DI shouldn't feedback. The problem is either with the tuning of the system itself or the operator behind the desk (which is most likely, as churches often rely on volunteer help that really have no business behind a mixing console).

Yeah the guy testing my head wasn't the normal church FOH guy so that may have been what it is. Either way we will have a brand new Genzler head and rig here this week that the church bought and I will test the DI out again myself. It is so much easier to just use the DI out and forget it.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Sometimes, low-mids will "roll" on a bass guitar, giving you hyped second order harmonics, which sounds a lot like the bass feeding back. The mic may be scooping those frequencies more, which explains the clearer sound with the mic. But you could get the same effect with a DI by trimming between 150 - 250hz (most mixing consoles worth anything have dual-band sweepable mids).

Again, I am a fan of a mic on a bass cabinet, but I think this is an expensive solution to an easily fixable problem.

 

[monkeyland]

Yeah the guy testing my head wasn't the normal church FOH guy so that may have been what it is. Either way we will have a brand new Genzler head and rig here this week that the church bought and I will test the DI out again myself. It is so much easier to just use the DI out and forget it.

4 pages in and we have the root of the issue